• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

  • Yes - absolutely

    Votes: 8 14.5%
  • Yes - it's more-or-less the same as

    Votes: 15 27.3%
  • No - but it's pretty close

    Votes: 4 7.3%
  • No - not even close

    Votes: 21 38.2%
  • Social Security is safe and secure, please stop scaring people.

    Votes: 12 21.8%
  • This is a crummy question with no relevance.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    55
Yes it is a Ponzii scheme you are FORCED to participate in.

ask a liberal why people should not be able to opt out. Normally its due to the obvious fact its an income redistribution scheme after all
 
Social security isn't a Ponzi scheme because it isn't fraudulent. Anyone with a brain could figure out that the people getting checks when the program first started obviously couldn't have paid anything substantial into it.
 
ask a liberal why people should not be able to opt out. Normally its due to the obvious fact its an income redistribution scheme after all

SS is obviously an income redistribution scheme, on the point there is no doubt. However, it is vital institution and certainly not a liberal one. Bismark didn't invent modern social security because he gave a crap about social welfare, he did it to insure enough social stability to thwart revolutionaries and communists.
 
Social security isn't a Ponzi scheme because it isn't fraudulent.
Well, sure, but if you change the definition of what a ponzi scheme is, then it's a ponzi scheme. :thumbs:
 
Social security isn't a Ponzi scheme because it isn't fraudulent. Anyone with a brain could figure out that the people getting checks when the program first started obviously couldn't have paid anything substantial into it.

The government is full of fraud and misinformation.

"What we have here is a misallocation of valuable resources, sir. . ."
 
Last edited:
The system needs to be reworked and privatized for people young enough to build funds to retire on.

I paid into SS for over 40 years and it works for me.
 
And it cannot be considered one. Not even called like one. The differences are significant and rule out any direct comparison.

actually it can be called a ponzi scheme. and it is one though legal since the government permits it
 
It looks like it meets the definition of a Ponzi Scheme.

Ponzi Scheme | Define Ponzi Scheme at Dictionary.com
: an investment swindle in which early investors are paid with sums obtained from later ones in order to create the illusion of profitability

So except for the way it is done, and for the goal, it is like a ponzi scheme? Hell, when you make it that broad you could call the stock market a ponzi scheme.
 
So except for the way it is done, and for the goal, it is like a ponzi scheme?

So you are saying that current SS recipients are not being paid by younger SS payers who may not even get their share?
 
Really at this point you could say that the entire government is a ponzi scheme if you consider most of the revenue goes to paying off bond holders anyways.
 
So you are saying that current SS recipients are not being paid by younger SS payers who may not even get their share?

Which would not fit the definition of a PONZI scheme.
 
So you are saying that current SS recipients are not being paid by younger SS payers who may not even get their share?

I am saying that there is no evidence that younger people will not get SS payments. There are several plans all of which will make SS good indefinitely. Like all programs however, some changes will have to be made. That is normal.
 
A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to separate investors, not from any actual profit earned by the organization, but from their own money or money paid by subsequent investors. The Ponzi scheme usually entices new investors by offering returns other investments cannot guarantee, in the form of short-term returns that are either abnormally high or unusually consistent.

Ponzi scheme - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ponzi vs. Social Security
Social Security is and always has been either a "pay-as-you-go" system or one that was partially advance-funded. Its structure, logic, and mode of operation have nothing in common with Ponzi schemes or chain letters or pyramid schemes.

The first modern social insurance program began in Germany in 1889 and has been in continuous operation for more than 100 years. The American Social Security system has been in continuous successful operation since 1935. Charles Ponzi's scheme lasted barely 200 days.
Larry DeWitt
Historian's Office
January 2009

Social Security Online - HISTORY, Ponzi Schemes vs. Social Security
 
And it cannot be considered one. Not even called like one. The differences are significant and rule out any direct comparison.
Hey, a dog can be called a cat because they both have 4 legs and a tail.
 
That definition alone highlights that SS is not a ponzi scheme as it's not an investment for profit.
In order for the elderly to get SS I and many other people not old enough to qualify for SS have to pay into it under the illusion we are going to get it back plus more back just like a Ponzi scheme requires newer investors to pay money into under the illusion they are going to make a profit it in order for the older investors to get money. This meets the definition of a Ponzi Scheme.
 
In order for the elderly to get SS I and many other people not old enough to qualify for SS have to pay into it under the illusion we are going to get it back plus more back just like a Ponzi scheme requires newer investors to pay money into under the illusion they are going to make a profit it in order for the older investors to get money. This meets the definition of a Ponzi Scheme.
There is no illusion you will get back more and how much you get back actually depends on how long you live. Another departure from ponzi schemes. It's not an investment for profit. It's an investment to make sure that even the poorest of the elderly gets a few bucks to live on. It's more like an insurance policy.
 
In order for the elderly to get SS I and many other people not old enough to qualify for SS

Actually you are old enough to qualify for SS at any age, disability.
 
In order for the elderly to get SS I and many other people not old enough to qualify for SS have to pay into it under the illusion we are going to get it back plus more back just like a Ponzi scheme requires newer investors to pay money into under the illusion they are going to make a profit it in order for the older investors to get money. This meets the definition of a Ponzi Scheme.

There is no illusion of anything. The projected shortfalls of social security are fully transparent. The money you pay into social security isn't an investment, its a tax. Trying to pretend social security is a ponzi scheme is a political cheapshot with no validity. Social security has very serious problems that need to dealt with and making bad analogies isn't going to fix anything.
 
I am saying that there is no evidence that younger people will not get SS payments. There are several plans all of which will make SS good indefinitely. Like all programs however, some changes will have to be made. That is normal.
Unlike a Ponzi scheme which quickly runs out of cash and is fraudulent , Social Security is a self sustaining pay-as-you-go system that is funded by payroll taxes. Thanks to President Reagan and the Greenspan Commission in 1983, adjustments were made to the system so that the Social Security trust fund now has approximately $2.6 trillion invested U.S. Treasury Bonds. Today recipients receive 100% of their benefits, but if no further adjustments are made and the trust fund is exausted, it will still be able to pay about 80% of the benefits.
 
In order for the elderly to get SS I and many other people not old enough to qualify for SS have to pay into it under the illusion we are going to get it back plus more back just like a Ponzi scheme requires newer investors to pay money into under the illusion they are going to make a profit it in order for the older investors to get money. This meets the definition of a Ponzi Scheme.

No. It requires investors to invest their money for the purpose of making more money, as in the stock market, in which the person taking the money doesn't invest, but does something brings in more investors under the same pretense. SS does not fit this defintion. You're doing what too many do, trying to bend reality to fit something you want it to fit. It doesn't. It is enough to say SS needs some work because boomers are going to be a huge drain. There are many legitimate arguements that can be presented. But to make false comparisons once again cheapens the debate, and takes a serious issue and puts it in the hands of the idiots, like perry, who seek to make points by deception. We should not allow this. Make real arguments. Use honest logic. And denounce those like Perry who don't.
 
Back
Top Bottom