View Poll Results: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

Voters
96. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes - absolutely

    41 42.71%
  • Yes - it's more-or-less the same as

    35 36.46%
  • No - but it's pretty close

    5 5.21%
  • No - not even close

    24 25.00%
  • Social Security is safe and secure, please stop scaring people.

    14 14.58%
  • This is a crummy question with no relevance.

    1 1.04%
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Thread: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

  1. #81
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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    It's a terrible insurance program.
    If SS were a private business, investors would be fleeing from the corporation because of the massive unfunded liabilities.

    I don't have a problem with disability insurance, unemployment (on a state level) and SSI but SS retirement is a boondoggle.
    The point being is that what it isn't, is a ponzi scheme.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The point being is that what it isn't, is a ponzi scheme.
    I know, I said it was worse.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  3. #83
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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Yes and No. Yes because most people only pay in 1/3 of what they actually receive in Social Security, No because it's inherit design is to give money to people when they are older or become financially unable to take care of themselves. It's kind of like a country insurance per say, except it can't balance its own books and/or has an almost unlimited way to gain income to fund it. Either way it is a old idea dying hard. My generation was always promised we would always pay into a system we would never be able to withdrawal from.
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  4. #84
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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    [QUOTE=Catawba;1059789788]I never said he did, what I said was that since 1945, Republican Presidents have approved more spending than Democrat Presidents. Show me the Republican vetoes of spending since 1945? QUOTE]

    Again, very misleading.

    November 2007 "Bush rejected a $606 billion bill to fund education, health and labor programs, complaining that it is too expensive and is larded with pork"
    Vetoes
    Bush President vetoes $23-billion water bill
    Bush vetoes (again) - references 6 other times, too

    This is just a quick google search. I'm sure there are endless others (here's the wiki summary), although, several Presidents have been reticent to use the veto too much while they still have a chance at compromise. If Congress has the numbers, vetoes don't matter much.

    Ford (R): 66 vetoes
    Carter (D): 31 vetoes
    Reagan (R): 78 vetoes
    Bush 1 (R): 44 vetoes
    Clinton (D): 37 vetoes
    Bush 2 (R): 12 vetoes
    Obama (D): 2 vetoes
    Most of the vetoes have to do with spending. But, Congress has the power to override, and the President will take most of the blame for a government shut-down.

    There is no refuting that with a Republican controlled Congress, from 1996 to 2000 the increase in debt decreased to the point of the debt actually decreasing in 2000. Then, in the years following, when the House and Senate were divided, debt increased. Then, when House and Senate were Republican again, the debt increase began decreasing again. Finally, when Democrats controlled House and Senate recently, the debt increased dramatically.

    Also, spending in and of itself isn't actually a tremendous issue. Debt is the issue. The amount of spending only becomes an issue when it can't be supported (Social Security, for example). It doesn't support itself. So, the treasury will have to support it eventually or it will default.
    The US is an odd ship. The captain yells out when he sees obtacles , but 535 individual propellers do the steering.

  5. #85
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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    It looks like it meets the definition of a Ponzi Scheme.

    Ponzi Scheme | Define Ponzi Scheme at Dictionary.com
    : an investment swindle in which early investors are paid with sums obtained from later ones in order to create the illusion of profitability
    I didn’t know that the investors in a Ponzi scheme are informed in the beginning that “early investors are paid with sums obtained from later ones in order to create the illusion of profitability” as they were and are about SS.

  6. #86
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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No. It requires investors to invest their money for the purpose of making more money,
    Your saying that the SS recipients are getting exactly what they put in and that it is not dependent on those who do not yet qualify for SS to pay for it? Obviously it is you trying to distort the truth. SS recipients require younger generations who do not qualify for SS to pay for it.


    SS does not fit this defintion.
    Yes it does, you choose to ignore the definition. The fact is in order to get money from SS it requires those who do not yet qualify for SS to pay into it and seeing how most Americans on SS were not paying $1,177 a month when they were working.So they are expecting a profit in return for their investment and cost of living increases both of which do not come out of thin air and require those who do not qualify IE new investors to pay for it.

    Average monthly Social Security benefit for a retired worker


    who seek to make points by deception
    The only deception is by you libs trying to claim it isn't a ponzi scheme and that people 20-30 years from now will be able to collect.

    We should not allow this.
    We should not allow people like you to make false claims it isn't a ponzi scheme or worse.
    Make real arguments. Use honest logic. And denounce those like Perry who don't.

    It is people like you who are dishonest. If it was a private company doing exactly the same thing as SS they would have been arrested. A Ponzi Scheme SS requires new investors who are under the assumption that they will get more to put in money so that the old investors can be paid just like SS requires new people who are under the assumption they will get more in order to pay money into so that those who qualify will receive it.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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  7. #87
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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    If it was a private company doing exactly the same thing as SS they would have been arrested. A Ponzi Scheme SS requires new investors who are under the assumption that they will get more to put in money so that the old investors can be paid just like SS requires new people who are under the assumption they will get more in order to pay money into so that those who qualify will receive it.
    Interesting point in that if a private company were doing this (Ponzi Scheme or not), the "investors" would be bailing out and it would crash. Once everyone figures out that their money isn't going to provide a return without a miracle, no one else invests in a private company or a scam. If the private company gets fixed (or the con gets convincing again), then investors start investing again. The difference here is that the government is making us invest. The upside is that the gov't is backing our investment. The downside is that they backed all the sub-prime loans, too, and look how that turned out.
    The US is an odd ship. The captain yells out when he sees obtacles , but 535 individual propellers do the steering.

  8. #88
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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by stsburns View Post
    Yes and No. Yes because most people only pay in 1/3 of what they actually receive in Social Security, No because it's inherit design is to give money to people when they are older or become financially unable to take care of themselves. It's kind of like a country insurance per say, except it can't balance its own books and/or has an almost unlimited way to gain income to fund it. Either way it is a old idea dying hard. My generation was always promised we would always pay into a system we would never be able to withdrawal from. Strange statement...
    Who said this ?
    Makes no sense ?

  9. #89
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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Indeed social security is "similar" to a Ponzi Scheme...But the term "Ponzi Scheme" implies a criminal intent. Our government has no "criminal intent". . .
    Socialism implies sharing...This is where the right has trouble...sharing is an anathema to them....

  10. #90
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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    "It is people like you who are dishonest. If it was a private company doing exactly the same thing as SS they would have been arrested. A Ponzi Scheme SS requires new investors who are under the assumption that they will get more to put in money so that the old investors can be paid just like SS requires new people who are under the assumption they will get more in order to pay money into so that those who qualify will receive it. "

    I draw SS and as I paid into it over the years, I asumed that the gov't was investing the funds to get a decent return. Instead, the gov't was borrowing the money at low interest rates and not funding the future. At this time, it does look like a ponzi scheme, but clearly it was not the original intent. Mismanagement and deception by our politicians is the root problem and it is not just with Social Security. We have the habit of electing and re-electing the most self serving group of scumbags on God's green Earth. Vote third party, any third party, you cannot do worse than what we have!

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