View Poll Results: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

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  • Yes - absolutely

    41 42.71%
  • Yes - it's more-or-less the same as

    35 36.46%
  • No - but it's pretty close

    5 5.21%
  • No - not even close

    24 25.00%
  • Social Security is safe and secure, please stop scaring people.

    14 14.58%
  • This is a crummy question with no relevance.

    1 1.04%
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Thread: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

  1. #71
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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post

    In order for the elderly to get SS I and many other people not old enough to qualify for SS have to pay into it under the illusion we are going to get it back plus more back just like a Ponzi scheme requires newer investors to pay money into under the illusion they are going to make a profit it in order for the older investors to get money. This meets the definition of a Ponzi Scheme.
    There is no illusion you will get back more and how much you get back actually depends on how long you live. Another departure from ponzi schemes. It's not an investment for profit. It's an investment to make sure that even the poorest of the elderly gets a few bucks to live on. It's more like an insurance policy.

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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    In order for the elderly to get SS I and many other people not old enough to qualify for SS
    Actually you are old enough to qualify for SS at any age, disability.

  3. #73
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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    In order for the elderly to get SS I and many other people not old enough to qualify for SS have to pay into it under the illusion we are going to get it back plus more back just like a Ponzi scheme requires newer investors to pay money into under the illusion they are going to make a profit it in order for the older investors to get money. This meets the definition of a Ponzi Scheme.
    There is no illusion of anything. The projected shortfalls of social security are fully transparent. The money you pay into social security isn't an investment, its a tax. Trying to pretend social security is a ponzi scheme is a political cheapshot with no validity. Social security has very serious problems that need to dealt with and making bad analogies isn't going to fix anything.

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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I am saying that there is no evidence that younger people will not get SS payments. There are several plans all of which will make SS good indefinitely. Like all programs however, some changes will have to be made. That is normal.
    Unlike a Ponzi scheme which quickly runs out of cash and is fraudulent , Social Security is a self sustaining pay-as-you-go system that is funded by payroll taxes. Thanks to President Reagan and the Greenspan Commission in 1983, adjustments were made to the system so that the Social Security trust fund now has approximately $2.6 trillion invested U.S. Treasury Bonds. Today recipients receive 100% of their benefits, but if no further adjustments are made and the trust fund is exausted, it will still be able to pay about 80% of the benefits.

  5. #75
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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    In order for the elderly to get SS I and many other people not old enough to qualify for SS have to pay into it under the illusion we are going to get it back plus more back just like a Ponzi scheme requires newer investors to pay money into under the illusion they are going to make a profit it in order for the older investors to get money. This meets the definition of a Ponzi Scheme.
    No. It requires investors to invest their money for the purpose of making more money, as in the stock market, in which the person taking the money doesn't invest, but does something brings in more investors under the same pretense. SS does not fit this defintion. You're doing what too many do, trying to bend reality to fit something you want it to fit. It doesn't. It is enough to say SS needs some work because boomers are going to be a huge drain. There are many legitimate arguements that can be presented. But to make false comparisons once again cheapens the debate, and takes a serious issue and puts it in the hands of the idiots, like perry, who seek to make points by deception. We should not allow this. Make real arguments. Use honest logic. And denounce those like Perry who don't.

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  6. #76
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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    There is no illusion you will get back more and how much you get back actually depends on how long you live. Another departure from ponzi schemes. It's not an investment for profit. It's an investment to make sure that even the poorest of the elderly gets a few bucks to live on. It's more like an insurance policy.
    Theres gads of people that pay into it for decades and die before they collect a dime.....the average SS check is a whopping....1100 a month and theres many people thats all they have to live on....Bernie Madhoff had a ponzai scheme and EVERYONE got screwed....no one gets screwed by SS...everyone pays into it...everyone that lives long enough collects it...

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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    No it's worse.

    If you die, at least under a Ponzi scheme, when it still has legs, your heirs can get a significant amount of money.
    Under SS, they don't get very much of what was taken from you.

    Now that the system is faltering, there is an incentive for government to get elderly people off the roles.
    Not saying they actually will but the incentive exists.
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  9. #79
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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    No it's worse.

    If you die, at least under a Ponzi scheme, when it still has legs, your heirs can get a significant amount of money.
    Under SS, they don't get very much of what was taken from you.

    Now that the system is faltering, there is an incentive for government to get elderly people off the roles.
    Not saying they actually will but the incentive exists.
    You are assuming SS is an investment. It is not, it is an insurance. In act, it's proper name is Retirement Insurance benefits. Social Security actually includes that and a number of other programs, such as disability, unemployment, SSI, etc.
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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    You are assuming SS is an investment. It is not, it is an insurance. In act, it's proper name is Retirement Insurance benefits. Social Security actually includes that and a number of other programs, such as disability, unemployment, SSI, etc.
    It's a terrible insurance program.
    If SS were a private business, investors would be fleeing from the corporation because of the massive unfunded liabilities.

    I don't have a problem with disability insurance, unemployment (on a state level) and SSI but SS retirement is a boondoggle.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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