View Poll Results: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

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  • Yes - absolutely

    41 42.71%
  • Yes - it's more-or-less the same as

    35 36.46%
  • No - but it's pretty close

    5 5.21%
  • No - not even close

    24 25.00%
  • Social Security is safe and secure, please stop scaring people.

    14 14.58%
  • This is a crummy question with no relevance.

    1 1.04%
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Thread: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

  1. #131
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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Everyone past the baby boomers is ****ed
    you are being too optimistic. everyone including the baby boomers is ****ed

    1) go into massive debt. maybe default
    2) print money like crazy and cause inflation which will make the dollar even worth less so your SS checks won't buy much
    nations with control over their own fiat money tend to choose the second over the first. I think a strategic default (for example, tempt China into sending missiles over Taiwan again, and then announce that your soft power response (because you don't want to be a warmonger) is to refuse to pay back Chinese-held bills until they formally renounce all claim to Taiwan) might work; but you would have to already be at a balanced budget, which is impossible without severely reigning in the entitlements anyway.

    3) raise taxes like crazy (and not just income taxes)
    unfortunately this won't raise the necessary money, which means that we are back at step 1.

    4) cut benefits
    at this point it's not even a question of whether or not we will do this, simply a matter of how soon we will do it, and so therefore whether we are able to not cut the benefits of those currently on the system.

    5) partial or total privatization of SS (why didn't we get this passed with GWB?)
    short answer: Republicans Are Cowards. You can see it today as well with the "oh you can't say that you can't say that" responses to Perry.

  2. #132
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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Acted irresponsibly ?
    absolutely.

    so you think all the babyboomers had high paying jobs where they all could afford to do it all themselves right
    you don't need a high paying job to save for retirement - you simply need personal discipline and a sense of personal responsibility; neither of which are traits famously associated with the instant-gratification Baby Boomers. I was saving for retirement when I was an E-3 with a family. I'm willing to bet if I could do it, the vast majority of that 2/3rds of Baby Boomers could have as well. Their parents managed to do so on smaller salaries, because they were a generation that had discipline and responsibility. The boomers not only could have, it would have been easier for them than any one else in human history.

    and they just said nah screw it, ill have the govt take care of me
    that is generally correct; though they probably put it more in terms of retirement being so far off and right now I really want this shiny object. Don't forget that the Boomers also took us from being a nation of net savers and investors to being a nation of indebted consumers.

    and you conveniently neglect to mention baby boomers had no choices and were forced to PAY social security for 40 yrs or more
    of course I do - it's immaterial. I am forced to pay as well; so were the boomers parents. whether you have to pay the FICA tax is irrelevant to whether or not you should be saving for retirement.

    you make alot of assumptions that are just WRONG, you assume that babyboomers should have ALL MADE ENOUGH Money to pay taxs, pay social security, feed their families and live and pay maximum into 401ks and save for their own medical retired
    all of them? maybe not. I'm sure you could find a few who were a missionary their entire lives, or a hunter-gatherer type in the deep appalachians. but the vast majority of them? absolutely. that two thirds of them have not is inexcusable and it is their own dang fault. You will not find your children terribly sympathetic when you insist that we have to destroy our lives to make up for the Boomers decision to work the "if it feels good do it" philosophy into their finances.

  3. #133
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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Finger wagging combined with "doom-and-gloom" conjecture add nothing to the discussion.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  4. #134
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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    I tend to refer to Social Security as a slush fund, not a ponzi scheme.

  5. #135
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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    But Social Security is sustainable by the mere fact it is a pay as you go system. By definition, it can never run out of money because there is a constant supply of payroll taxes. When the trust fund of approximately $2.5 trillion runs out it will still be able pay benefits of about 80%.
    Taking the "pay as you go" term literally for social security is a mistake because it overlooks the fact that people taking SS are not paying for it themselves. SS recipients are riding on the backs of the younger generations. So when SS reserves run out then somethings got to give. Either the SS recipients get ****ed or the SS recipients **** over the younger generations by making them pick up the extra tab.

    So its "sustainable" in the sense that there are ways to keep it paying out (e.g., more taxes, less benefits). Its not "sustainable" in the sense that it cant continue paying the same benefits without ****ing somebody.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    I tend to refer to Social Security as a slush fund, not a ponzi scheme.
    If i may add:

    A slush fund bounded by perpetuity.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Taking the "pay as you go" term literally for social security is a mistake because it overlooks the fact that people taking SS are not paying for it themselves. SS recipients are riding on the backs of the younger generations. So when SS reserves run out then somethings got to give. Either the SS recipients get ****ed or the SS recipients **** over the younger generations by making them pick up the extra tab.

    So its "sustainable" in the sense that there are ways to keep it paying out (e.g., more taxes, less benefits). Its not "sustainable" in the sense that it cant continue paying the same benefits without ****ing somebody.
    Needs and demographics change throughout generations. The program was never designed to provide high net worth individuals a secondary stream of cash-flow during retirement.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  8. #138
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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    no, it's not a Ponzi scheme...their would have to be investment to qualify as such, there is no investment in regards to SS.

    and no, it's not an insurance policy either....you actually have property rights pertaining to insurance benefits, you have no such rights with SS.

    on the front end, SS is simply a regressive tax... on the back end, it's an entitlement benefit.

  9. #139
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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    and no, it's not an insurance policy either....you actually have property rights pertaining to insurance benefits, you have no such rights with SS.
    Nonsense. Look up "survivor benefits". You would think people would research topics they do not know about prior to making political statements.
    Last edited by Kushinator; 09-14-11 at 07:31 PM.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  10. #140
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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Needs and demographics change throughout generations. The program was never designed to provide high net worth individuals a secondary stream of cash-flow during retirement.
    what net worth qualifies as "high"? What percentage of SS are these "high net worth individuals" siphoning off?

    Consider that there are significantely fewer wealthy people than the middle and poor. Seems like dropping them would be a drop in the bucket (or maybe a tea cups worth).

    What makes you think it was never designed for everyone? Did everyone just forget until now?
    Last edited by scourge99; 09-14-11 at 07:48 PM.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

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