View Poll Results: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

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  • Yes - absolutely

    41 42.71%
  • Yes - it's more-or-less the same as

    35 36.46%
  • No - but it's pretty close

    5 5.21%
  • No - not even close

    24 25.00%
  • Social Security is safe and secure, please stop scaring people.

    14 14.58%
  • This is a crummy question with no relevance.

    1 1.04%
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Thread: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

  1. #111
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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Being "forced", similar to a two year old being forced to save for his old age..
    Social Security would have never been necessary if American so-called adults did not act like two-year olds, in dealing with money/economics..
    it is worth noting also that you have this precisely backwards. When Social Security was first inaugurated, 65 was higher than the life expectancy. People generally did save for themselves - we were a nation of savers - and Social Security was sold as a way to help out those whose savings had run out before their life did. It is only after we put into place Social Security and Medicare, and began to tell ourselves that the Big Ole Government Would Take Care Of Us that we started to act (in your words) "like two year olds" by ceasing to save, and moving from a saver nation to a debtor one. The baby boomers are now facing "retirement" with the entitlements about to collapse under their own weight, and having not saved for themselves, despite having worked and lived their entire lives in the greatest abundance of wealth the human species has ever known.... because we told them the government would take care of them, so they didn't need to take care of themselves. want to know what destroys a savings rate? a welfare state.

  2. #112
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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post

    it is worth noting also that you have this precisely backwards. When Social Security was first inaugurated, 65 was higher than the life expectancy. People generally did save for themselves - we were a nation of savers - and Social Security was sold as a way to help out those whose savings had run out before their life did. It is only after we put into place Social Security and Medicare, and began to tell ourselves that the Big Ole Government Would Take Care Of Us that we started to act (in your words) "like two year olds" by ceasing to save, and moving from a saver nation to a debtor one. The baby boomers are now facing "retirement" with the entitlements about to collapse under their own weight, and having not saved for themselves, despite having worked and lived their entire lives in the greatest abundance of wealth the human species has ever known.... because we told them the government would take care of them, so they didn't need to take care of themselves. want to know what destroys a savings rate? a welfare state.
    That may be true for some but I don't think it's true for most. Between 401Ks, Roth IRAs, SEP IRAs, and other retirement plans, people are taking responsibility for their own futures. Most people I know don't expect the government to take care of them and I can't imagine they could live off of SS if they had to, though I do know a couple of people who milk the system for everything they can squeeze out of it.

  3. #113
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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    If SS was worth a damn, baby boomers wouldn't be a huge drain. Furthermore, ending SS for younger people wouldn't be the political kiss of death that it is. We are paying our parents, and that's why no one wants to end it, cause it would be like turning the spigot off. Remember the budget deal, and Obama said he couldn't guarantee SS checks would go out?
    Another issue. It isn't, however, a Ponzi scheme.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  4. #114
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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    That may be true for some but I don't think it's true for most. Between 401Ks, Roth IRAs, SEP IRAs, and other retirement plans, people are taking responsibility for their own futures. Most people I know don't expect the government to take care of them and I can't imagine they could live off of SS if they had to, though I do know a couple of people who milk the system for everything they can squeeze out of it.
    well good on you for knowing a particularly fiscally wise set of folks. sadly, that is not the norm.

    Fully 2/3rds of Baby Boomers haven't saved enough for retirement.

  5. #115
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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Another issue. It isn't, however, a Ponzi scheme.
    Paul Samuelson disagreed.

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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    well good on you for knowing a particularly fiscally wise set of folks. sadly, that is not the norm.

    Fully 2/3rds of Baby Boomers haven't saved enough for retirement.
    That may be the case for many baby boomers, but that is only half of the workforce. Roughly two-thirds of the 150 million people working have 401Ks or IRAs these days.

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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    That may be the case for many baby boomers, but that is only half of the workforce. Roughly two-thirds of the 150 million people working have 401Ks or IRAs these days.
    and they do not use them - or they put in the minimum. The Baby Boomers are the ones who are about to retire; they are the ones who are about to be completely unprepared when they crash the entitlement system, and they are going to be the ones that insist that younger workers pick up the massive check they have bounced to make up for the fact that they acted irresponsibly.

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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    .... ok for all you petty nit pickers: we will concede that its not EXACTLY 100% a ponzi scheme.
    1) its not fraudulent
    2) its not illegal.
    3) its not tricking investors (because there are no "investors". Its a tax, not an investment)

    But its SIMILAR in SOME respects to a ponzi scheme.
    1) its not sustainable - contrary to its original intention the excess SS funds were supposed to be used to buy bonds (or something else) to actually MAKE money to be paid out later. But the government doesn't actually make money because it loans the money to itself. So when it it comes time to pay out the US will just increase US debt and/or print more money... AND that is what has got the government worried because it may break the system when it has to start paying more than it takes in.
    2) its a pay as you go system - it pays out current SS with funds received now. Similar--but not exactly--to how a Ponzi scheme pays older investors with the funds from new investors.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    and they do not use them - or they put in the minimum. The Baby Boomers are the ones who are about to retire; they are the ones who are about to be completely unprepared when they crash the entitlement system, and they are going to be the ones that insist that younger workers pick up the massive check they have bounced to make up for the fact that they acted irresponsibly.
    Everyone past the baby boomers is ****ed. I am NOT an economist but here is what i think. The governments going to do one or more of the following:
    1) go into massive debt. maybe default
    2) print money like crazy and cause inflation which will make the dollar even worth less so your SS checks won't buy much
    3) raise taxes like crazy (and not just income taxes)
    4) cut benefits
    5) partial or total privatization of SS (why didn't we get this passed with GWB?)
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  10. #120
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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    and they do not use them - or they put in the minimum. The Baby Boomers are the ones who are about to retire; they are the ones who are about to be completely unprepared when they crash the entitlement system, and they are going to be the ones that insist that younger workers pick up the massive check they have bounced to make up for the fact that they acted irresponsibly.
    Acted irresponsibly ? lol....so you think all the babyboomers had high paying jobs where they all could afford to do it all themselves right ? and they just said nah screw it, ill have the govt take care of me..lol....and you conveniently neglect to mention baby boomers had no choices and were forced to PAY social security for 40 yrs or more...you make alot of assumptions that are just WRONG, you assume that babyboomers should have ALL MADE ENOUGH Money to pay taxs, pay social security, feed their families and live and pay maximum into 401ks and save for their own medical retired...lol.....and just chose not too and are all just irresponsible parasites.... you need to read some other books cpwill.

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