View Poll Results: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

Voters
96. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes - absolutely

    41 42.71%
  • Yes - it's more-or-less the same as

    35 36.46%
  • No - but it's pretty close

    5 5.21%
  • No - not even close

    24 25.00%
  • Social Security is safe and secure, please stop scaring people.

    14 14.58%
  • This is a crummy question with no relevance.

    1 1.04%
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Thread: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

  1. #91
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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Your saying that the SS recipients are getting exactly what they put in and that it is not dependent on those who do not yet qualify for SS to pay for it? Obviously it is you trying to distort the truth. SS recipients require younger generations who do not qualify for SS to pay for it.



    Yes it does, you choose to ignore the definition. The fact is in order to get money from SS it requires those who do not yet qualify for SS to pay into it and seeing how most Americans on SS were not paying $1,177 a month when they were working.So they are expecting a profit in return for their investment and cost of living increases both of which do not come out of thin air and require those who do not qualify IE new investors to pay for it.

    Average monthly Social Security benefit for a retired worker




    The only deception is by you libs trying to claim it isn't a ponzi scheme and that people 20-30 years from now will be able to collect.



    We should not allow people like you to make false claims it isn't a ponzi scheme or worse.



    It is people like you who are dishonest. If it was a private company doing exactly the same thing as SS they would have been arrested. A Ponzi Scheme SS requires new investors who are under the assumption that they will get more to put in money so that the old investors can be paid just like SS requires new people who are under the assumption they will get more in order to pay money into so that those who qualify will receive it.
    I'am saying they are not investing in a stock with the purpose of having their money make money, which is by clear definition what a Ponzi scheme is. You cannot have a Ponzi scheme otherwise. And collecting more is not equal to expecting your money to be invested in a profit making environment. You are simply wrong in your perception of what is going on.

    As for collecting, were you promised exactly what you put in? Have those who have gotten benefits only gotten what was put in? I don't suggest there is no problems that need to be worked on, but SS is not a ponzi by either definition or by intent.

    And no, a private company would not be arrested. You're just buying into the lie James.

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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post

    Your saying that the SS recipients are getting exactly what they put in and that it is not dependent on those who do not yet qualify for SS to pay for it? Obviously it is you trying to distort the truth. SS recipients require younger generations who do not qualify for SS to pay for it.
    I didn't see anybody stake the claim that you get out of SS exactly what you put in. Where did you see that?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post

    It is people like you who are dishonest. If it was a private company doing exactly the same thing as SS they would have been arrested. A Ponzi Scheme SS requires new investors who are under the assumption that they will get more to put in money so that the old investors can be paid just like SS requires new people who are under the assumption they will get more in order to pay money into so that those who qualify will receive it.
    This is where your argument falls apart. Social Security does not advertise you will get more than you put in. People know they may not receive anything at all if they don't live long enough to reach the age of eligibility

  3. #93
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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    The big problem issues SS is not its forced savings for people to fund minimal retirement with some redistribution added. The social benefits are manifold and have been well worth it. The problem is becoming one where low income people will not be able to save enough money (forced by SS or on their own) during the years they can work to pay for the longer old age during which they canít work. The longer old age is mostly due to better health care and better medicine. Increasing the retirement age does not fix this problem since it doesnít increase the employable age. We may be forced to go back to what we had before which was if you canít afford it you donít get it and pay up front please for medical needs, housing and food. The Tea Bagger we met with the $90,000 medical bill for his heart attack would not have burdened his family, you and us, if the law allowed the hospital where his wife works to refuse to accept him.

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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    The big problem issues SS is not its forced savings for people to fund minimal retirement with some redistribution added. The social benefits are manifold and have been well worth it. The problem is becoming one where low income people will not be able to save enough money (forced by SS or on their own) during the years they can work to pay for the longer old age during which they can’t work. The longer old age is mostly due to better health care and better medicine. Increasing the retirement age does not fix this problem since it doesn’t increase the employable age. We may be forced to go back to what we had before which was if you can’t afford it you don’t get it and pay up front please for medical needs, housing and food. The Tea Bagger we met with the $90,000 medical bill for his heart attack would not have burdened his family, you and us, if the law allowed the hospital where his wife works to refuse to accept him.
    You got through 90% of your post sounding reasonable and then you spilled into this political 'tea bagger' crap at the end.
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  5. #95
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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    I didn't see anybody stake the claim that you get out of SS exactly what you put in. Where did you see that?
    So in other words the current SS recipients rely on new investors/those who do not qualify for SS to pay into it in order to get what they are getting now.

    Ponzi scheme | Define Ponzi scheme at Dictionary.com
    : an investment swindle in which early investors(Those who are currently on SS) are paid with sums obtained from later ones(those who do not qualify for SS yet) in order to create the illusion of profitability(The money SS current recipients put in a long time ago plus extra money they get from non-SS recipients today)

    This is where your argument falls apart. Social Security does not advertise you will get more than you put in. People know they may not receive anything at all if they don't live long enough to reach the age of eligibility
    But most people expect that will get their money back plus extra and more when they are finally eligible to receive SS.
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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    So in other words the current SS recipients rely on new investors/those who do not qualify for SS to pay into it in order to get what they are getting now.

    Ponzi scheme | Define Ponzi scheme at Dictionary.com
    : an investment swindle in which early investors(Those who are currently on SS) are paid with sums obtained from later ones(those who do not qualify for SS yet) in order to create the illusion of profitability(The money SS current recipients put in a long time ago plus extra money they get from non-SS recipients today)



    But most people expect that will get their money back plus extra and more when they are finally eligible to receive SS.
    Except there is no illusion of profitability. How much have wages increased since, lets say, 1950?

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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post

    So in other words the current SS recipients rely on new investors/those who do not qualify for SS to pay into it in order to get what they are getting now.
    That doesn't answer the question ... who said SS recipients get out of it exactly what they put in?

    As far as SS relying on "new investors", so does my homeowners insurance policy. That doesn't make it a ponzi scheme.


    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post

    Ponzi scheme | Define Ponzi scheme at Dictionary.com
    : an investment swindle in which early investors(Those who are currently on SS) are paid with sums obtained from later ones(those who do not qualify for SS yet) in order to create the illusion of profitability(The money SS current recipients put in a long time ago plus extra money they get from non-SS recipients today)
    SS is not an "investment swindle" nor does it create an "illusion of profitability." 2/3rds of your definition don't even apply which leaves one baffled at how you can continue calling SS a ponzi scheme.

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post

    But most people expect that will get their money back plus extra and more when they are finally eligible to receive SS.
    SS does not create any such illusion, which according to the definition you gave, is one of the components of a ponzi scheme; along with it not being fraudulent. Just look at the effort you have to exert to twist the definition of a ponzi scheme to make it look like SS.

    Here's a cyber-broom ... sweep up the pieces of your shattered argument.

  8. #98
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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    I'm not sure they knew "from the very beginning", Aunt Spiker. But now? By 2025, there'll be something like two workers for every 10 retired people, if nothing changes.

    This problem has been pointed out to us since I was 16 years old, but no one wants to volunteer to have his benefits reduced so that the solution can be sought. Mine, mine, mine, everyone chants....it's just so disturbing.
    Two workers for every ten retirees? Come on now, let's not overexaggerate.
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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No. It requires investors to invest their money for the purpose of making more money, as in the stock market, in which the person taking the money doesn't invest, but does something brings in more investors under the same pretense. SS does not fit this defintion. You're doing what too many do, trying to bend reality to fit something you want it to fit. It doesn't. It is enough to say SS needs some work because boomers are going to be a huge drain. There are many legitimate arguements that can be presented. But to make false comparisons once again cheapens the debate, and takes a serious issue and puts it in the hands of the idiots, like perry, who seek to make points by deception. We should not allow this. Make real arguments. Use honest logic. And denounce those like Perry who don't.
    If SS was worth a damn, baby boomers wouldn't be a huge drain. Furthermore, ending SS for younger people wouldn't be the political kiss of death that it is. We are paying our parents, and that's why no one wants to end it, cause it would be like turning the spigot off. Remember the budget deal, and Obama said he couldn't guarantee SS checks would go out?
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    Re: Is Social Security a Ponzi Scheme?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    So in other words the current SS recipients rely on new investors/those who do not qualify for SS to pay into it in order to get what they are getting now.

    Ponzi scheme | Define Ponzi scheme at Dictionary.com
    : an investment swindle in which early investors(Those who are currently on SS) are paid with sums obtained from later ones(those who do not qualify for SS yet) in order to create the illusion of profitability(The money SS current recipients put in a long time ago plus extra money they get from non-SS recipients today)



    But most people expect that will get their money back plus extra and more when they are finally eligible to receive SS... An interesting statement to prove.....I seriously doubt if this is the official SS stance...But foolish minions may utter this falsehood.. .....
    James, you seem to be anti-social security...
    Why ?
    Or, why do conservatives dislike the working man ?

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