View Poll Results: Is Labor a Commodity

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  • Yes, it's a commodity subject to the market of wages offered

    10 33.33%
  • No, it's not a commodity, workers should receive a living wage

    12 40.00%
  • Yes, fill in your own justification

    2 6.67%
  • No, fill in your own justification

    6 20.00%
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Thread: Is Labor a Commodity?

  1. #41
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    Re: Is Labor a Commodity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    And those are the ones who are usually on the welfare lines screaming they want to screw the wealthy because they deserve more stuff!
    Nailed that one right on the head



  2. #42
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    Re: Is Labor a Commodity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Razor View Post
    No... the knowledge and skills are a commodity... not the labor.

    Tell me, when an hourly worker goes over 40 hours a week, their pay suddenly goes up by fifty percent. Did their skills increase? Their knowledge? Did their job suddenly become more rare? No. It's because it requires more sacrifice of the time of life, taking away from family and leisure.
    So if the pay increases without the skills/knowledge increasing, that implies that the labor is the commodity, not the skills/knowledge.

    Labor is a commodity, that's why people get paid for their time.

  3. #43
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    Re: Is Labor a Commodity?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Wonderful - so you oppose it. That is irrelevant. The reality is that the figure you yourself point to - $7 or $8 per hours - is NOT established by the sole work of market forces - but by government and law. But yet, you defend the $7 or $8 dollars just the same as all they can get or all an employer will pay.
    I defend economic reality. if someone is worth only 8 an hour its

    1) idiotic to demand the employer pay more merely based on the "needs" of the employee that are not sufficiently addressed by his skills

    2) not the fault of society or the employer or especially the market



  4. #44
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    Re: Is Labor a Commodity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Sure, but I can expand that to any school I've ever had any experience with, plus I have friends who are teachers and they'll tell you the same thing. The problem, in general, isn't the schools, it's the attitudes of the kids and their parents.
    If you are basing your evaluation on your own experience, that is by definition highly limited. To add the experience of others may or may not add anything to your statement since you have no control over their evaluation and the truth or validity of their evaluation.

    Like you I have personal experience. I attended school from grades K - 12. I attended college to obtain a Bachelors and Masters Degrees plus additional advanced classes. I taught in the public school system for over 33 years. I was classified as a Master Teacher who trained and educated other teachers. My children attended K-12 and I have experience as a parent.

    So I have experience just like you have experience but I doubt they are the same experience. You cannot vouch for schools I attended and I cannot vouch for school you attended. To base this on personal experience is going to be very limited by definition.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  5. #45
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    Re: Is Labor a Commodity?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I defend economic reality. if someone is worth only 8 an hour its

    1) idiotic to demand the employer pay more merely based on the "needs" of the employee that are not sufficiently addressed by his skills

    2) not the fault of society or the employer or especially the market
    You are missing the central point here. YOU are using the $8 dollar an hour figure and attempting to justify it with market conditions claiming the $8 per hour is a result of those conditions when we have already established that IT IS NOT.

    The very figure that YOU are attempting to justify was produced by government in a system that you are opposed to.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  6. #46
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    Re: Is Labor a Commodity?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    If you are basing your evaluation on your own experience, that is by definition highly limited. To add the experience of others may or may not add anything to your statement since you have no control over their evaluation and the truth or validity of their evaluation.

    Like you I have personal experience. I attended school from grades K - 12. I attended college to obtain a Bachelors and Masters Degrees plus additional advanced classes. I taught in the public school system for over 33 years. I was classified as a Master Teacher who trained and educated other teachers. My children attended K-12 and I have experience as a parent.

    So I have experience just like you have experience but I doubt they are the same experience. You cannot vouch for schools I attended and I cannot vouch for school you attended. To base this on personal experience is going to be very limited by definition.
    Your kids didn't attend university?



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    Re: Is Labor a Commodity?

    Ok, without reading the thread,

    Yes, at this point in time it is a commodity.

    Should it be?

    No.

    Why?

    Because ALL other commodities are by definition property.

    And slavery is illegal.

    I, and what I produce with un-replaceable hours of my life, am not a pallet of 2x4s or a barrel of oil.

    The fact that our man made "system" calculates it so is something that needs to be corrected, IMO, not accepted like sunrise or gravity.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  8. #48
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    Re: Is Labor a Commodity?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Without workers/labor there would be no society to be found.
    Can this be said for any other "commodity"?
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  9. #49
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    Re: Is Labor a Commodity?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Your kids didn't attend university?
    Yes they did. I did not include it because I - as i assume most parents - had a very different level of involvement in their K-12 education as opposed to their college education.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  10. #50
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    Re: Is Labor a Commodity?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    The fact remains that this magic $7 or 8 dollars per hour that YOU want to believe is produced solely by market forces IS NOT.



    to whom? How is this decision reached? Are you saying we should teach nothing that is outside of a skill needed for a specific trade or skill?
    Wage is a controlled commodity on the base end ... which seems to create a lot of derision, yet compensation is not set by market conditions and wages are a "cornered" commodity. By maintaining a basically finite pool of labor through control of legislation and capital, interests may move jobs to cheap labor driving down markets for labor in one area, while increasing markets in another area.

    Skills, education, and the need for skills then become merely a catch phrase for ways to improve ... anything you want to pretend was lacking in the first place.

    You see a post ... x field or y field is short of skills in the market. OK ... the jobs which exited market A were already being done and moved to market B. Now suddenly Market A is uneducated and unskilled.

    For example 20 visa workers from India, hired to replace 17 American workers at 20% to 25% of the cost (link below). The laid off employee's were given the benefits of training their replacements.
    Did the employees being laid off suddenly become uneducated? Was the market short of their skill set?

    So for the millions of jobs exported ... there were skills in America ... skill and education that did not vaporize like magic.

    Education and skills are a catch phrase / cover story to explain the lack of job creation in America. The job flotilla sets market conditions for compensation ... if it leaves China for Chad, compensation may be a loaf of bread a day.



    USATODAY.com - Workers asked to train foreign replacements
    On a Friday in 2003, the former WatchMark software tester was part of a team of workers summoned to a meeting. There, she says, managers handed out letters explaining that the testing staff was being laid off. Managers then told the group that their replacements would be workers in India, she says. The workers were flying in and would be in the office Monday. She says she was instructed to train them.

    Bronstein felt trapped. She says she believes that if she refused, she would have probably been fired without severance and would have been ineligible for unemployment benefits. If she quit, she says, she wouldn't have received severance or been eligible for unemployment.
    Last edited by Michael H; 09-10-11 at 07:23 PM.
    If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking. Patton
    New opinions are always suspected, and usually opposed, without any other reason but because they are not already common. John Locke

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