View Poll Results: Is Labor a Commodity

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  • Yes, it's a commodity subject to the market of wages offered

    10 33.33%
  • No, it's not a commodity, workers should receive a living wage

    12 40.00%
  • Yes, fill in your own justification

    2 6.67%
  • No, fill in your own justification

    6 20.00%
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Thread: Is Labor a Commodity?

  1. #21
    Sage
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    Re: Is Labor a Commodity?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You ignore that the figure you name of $7 an hour was also influenced by the lowest amount permissible under law - the minimum wage.
    So? Some jobs may not be worth $7 an hour. Some may be so basic, so low-level that they may be worth mere cents in a truly free market. I really have no problem with a minimum wage. It is an entirely artificial increase in all labor to a basic minimum level, that doesn't mean that the free market doesn't work, just that it's been slightly modified. Minimum wage jobs are not meant to be something you can live on, they are meant to be a starting job where you can gain experience and skills and get better jobs down the road.

    So what's wrong with people who are trying to raise families on minimum wage? Where did they go wrong?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  2. #22
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Is Labor a Commodity?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You ignore that the figure you name of $7 an hour was also influenced by the lowest amount permissible under law - the minimum wage.
    That's being contrarian

    Lets use 8 an hour

    point remains



  3. #23
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    Re: Is Labor a Commodity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Not as amazing as the idea that people ought to be responsible enough to get an education, training and learn job skills that will allow them to make the living they'd like to make. The very idea that people ought to LEARN anything... imagine that!
    Well, an education system that actually teaches things might help with that.
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  4. #24
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    Re: Is Labor a Commodity?

    Quote Originally Posted by atrasicarius View Post
    Well, an education system that actually teaches things might help with that.
    agreed

    we don't need political correctness or how to put a condom on a cucumber or history lessons about lesbian native american contributions to say modern medicine. we need to teach skills and trades.



  5. #25
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    Re: Is Labor a Commodity?

    Quote Originally Posted by atrasicarius View Post
    Well, an education system that actually teaches things might help with that.
    While I'll be the first to say we need to improve our educational system, the fact that in many areas, there's a greater than 50% drop out rate certainly doesn't help. The fact that many parents are ignorant and therefore don't push their kids to get an education is a huge problem.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  6. #26
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    Re: Is Labor a Commodity?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    spare me the psychobabble. The market sets wages. If someone has skills that only bring 7 dollars an hour

    1) whose fault is that

    2) why would an employer pay him 20 an hour when other employers can get equally skilled labor for less than half than that

    3) "obscenely wealthy" people (wtf does that mean) aren't that way due to market rates of wages. Those people you think are too rich mainly are that rich because they start a business that takes off. The guys who started Google are not obscenely rich due to them underpaying workers. Same with Bill Gates. Your either or argument has no merit whatsoever
    Imagine a society with 200 people living in it, that only requires 100 people to work full time to provide all the necessities. Under the current price and wages model, people need to work full time to survive, which means that half the people aren't guaranteed jobs, and likely have jobs that are essentially make work. Instead, all 200 can work half time, and the prices and wages model can be adjusted so that they can all afford the necessities. Or alternatively, those that want some kind of specialist job can get one, and those that don't can do the remaining amount of necessary labor and have more free time than they would otherwise.
    For: legalizing drugs, gay marriage, abortion, guns, universal health care, public sector jobs, nuclear power, free education, progressive taxation
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  7. #27
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    Re: Is Labor a Commodity?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    agreed

    we don't need political correctness or how to put a condom on a cucumber or history lessons about lesbian native american contributions to say modern medicine. we need to teach skills and trades.
    Actually, we do need how to put a condom on a cucumber. Aren't you the one who's always complaining about how many babies poor people have? We definitely need a much greater focus on skills and trades, though. Those should be taught during high school, and people who want to study them shouldn't have to study history or English or whatever.
    For: legalizing drugs, gay marriage, abortion, guns, universal health care, public sector jobs, nuclear power, free education, progressive taxation
    Against: corporations, make-work, the 40 hour work week, intellectual property, imperialism, "homeland security," censorship

  8. #28
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    Re: Is Labor a Commodity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    While I'll be the first to say we need to improve our educational system, the fact that in many areas, there's a greater than 50% drop out rate certainly doesn't help. The fact that many parents are ignorant and therefore don't push their kids to get an education is a huge problem.
    The thing about humans is that we instinctively want to learn. It'll happen naturally as long as you don't put kids in an environment that's extremely hostile to learning. Like, you know, a modern school.
    For: legalizing drugs, gay marriage, abortion, guns, universal health care, public sector jobs, nuclear power, free education, progressive taxation
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  9. #29
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    Re: Is Labor a Commodity?

    Quote Originally Posted by atrasicarius View Post
    Actually, we do need how to put a condom on a cucumber. Aren't you the one who's always complaining about how many babies poor people have? We definitely need a much greater focus on skills and trades, though. Those should be taught during high school, and people who want to study them shouldn't have to study history or English or whatever.
    That assumes these poor people are smart enough to actually use a condom in the first place, much less be afford to have one available. Certainly we do need to teach actual job skills, that's an absolute necessity.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  10. #30
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    Re: Is Labor a Commodity?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    That's being contrarian

    Lets use 8 an hour

    point remains
    The fact remains that this magic $7 or 8 dollars per hour that YOU want to believe is produced solely by market forces IS NOT.

    we need to teach skills and trades.
    to whom? How is this decision reached? Are you saying we should teach nothing that is outside of a skill needed for a specific trade or skill?
    Last edited by haymarket; 09-10-11 at 06:44 PM.
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