View Poll Results: Is Labor a Commodity

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  • Yes, it's a commodity subject to the market of wages offered

    10 33.33%
  • No, it's not a commodity, workers should receive a living wage

    12 40.00%
  • Yes, fill in your own justification

    2 6.67%
  • No, fill in your own justification

    6 20.00%
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Thread: Is Labor a Commodity?

  1. #131
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    Re: Is Labor a Commodity?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    are you mad at those who invest and make money?
    No, just pointing out the obvious hypocrisy in your position. You get all huffy about mothers living in abject poverty getting enough to feed their kid because they didn't earn it, but you get equally huffy about how we need to be giving even more money to super rich people who already have way more than they need and many of who also don't do anything to earn it.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    an investing does help create wealth.
    If tomorrow there were a computer glitch somewhere in the computers at Bank of America and all those shares that are presently listed as being owned by different super rich folks were suddenly recorded as belonging to me, would I be creating enormous amounts of wealth and creating jobs?

  2. #132
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Is Labor a Commodity?

    Quote Originally Posted by atrasicarius View Post
    Translation: I have no idea what the difference between fascism and authoritarian socialism is. I'll give you a hint: fascism is a right wing ideology.
    limiting yourself to a linear paradigm of political philosophy is silly

    collectivist authoritarian socialism and collectivist fascism are pretty similar in terms of what happens to those living under either regimes.

    Most of those on the economic right want less government and less collectivism which is the polar opposite of fascism



  3. #133
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    Re: Is Labor a Commodity?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    No, just pointing out the obvious hypocrisy in your position. You get all huffy about mothers living in abject poverty getting enough to feed their kid because they didn't earn it, but you get equally huffy about how we need to be giving even more money to super rich people who already have way more than they need and many of who also don't do anything to earn it.



    If tomorrow there were a computer glitch somewhere in the computers at Bank of America and all those shares that are presently listed as being owned by different super rich folks were suddenly recorded as belonging to me, would I be creating enormous amounts of wealth and creating jobs?
    who is GIVING MONEY to the uber rich?



  4. #134
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    Re: Is Labor a Commodity?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    limiting yourself to a linear paradigm of political philosophy is silly

    collectivist authoritarian socialism and collectivist fascism are pretty similar in terms of what happens to those living under either regimes.

    Most of those on the economic right want less government and less collectivism which is the polar opposite of fascism
    Yes, they're pretty similar in function. They're complete, polar opposites in how you get to them, though. Fascism is the logical conclusion of corporatism, which is the logical conclusion of an unregulated free market. Authoritarian socialism is the result of a failed communist revolution. Fascism isn't about a powerful government. Fascism is about a government so weak, it's been completely subsumed by the corporations, and become indistinguishable from them. The results look pretty much the same as totalitarianism, except that the people on the right are fine with it, because it's all done in the private sector.
    For: legalizing drugs, gay marriage, abortion, guns, universal health care, public sector jobs, nuclear power, free education, progressive taxation
    Against: corporations, make-work, the 40 hour work week, intellectual property, imperialism, "homeland security," censorship

  5. #135
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    Re: Is Labor a Commodity?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    who is GIVING MONEY to the uber rich?
    The same source as all money has- our country's economy. We have a bunch of rules and norms laid out. Those rules and norms determine who gets what. When any of those rules result in any money going to people who need it, you get mad. When any of those rules result in money going to people who don't need it, you are happy.

  6. #136
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    Re: Is Labor a Commodity?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    fascist tendencies? Like saying that the rich should grovel at the feet of the masses to keep the wealth that they honestly and fairly earned? The american right is far more removed from fascist tendencies than the collectivist left
    The rich should indeed give thanks that they are allowed to live in a land where they can keep so much of their wealth as compared to other nations which are no so generous to the wealthy.

    The Far right libertarian fringe is the closest thing we have in this nation to fascism. When I look at the creation of the right wing - The American Legislative Exchange Council ALEC and how they allow major corporations to buy voting seats at the table along with elected state legislators to determine policy which is then strongly suggested to state legislatures around the land - I cannot help but remember how the fascist supreme - Benito Mussolini - dissolved the elected Italian parliament and replaced it with a body of corporatists ALEC seems to be using Mussolini as its model.

    read and learn

    http://alecexposed.org/wiki/ALEC_Exposed

    http://www.rawfoodinfo.com/articles/...erfascism.html

    As the 1983 American Heritage Dictionary noted, fascism is: "A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism."

    Mussolini was quite straightforward about all this. In a 1923 pamphlet titled "The Doctrine of Fascism" he wrote, "If classical liberalism spells individualism, Fascism spells government." But not a government of, by, and for We The People - instead, it would be a government of, by, and for the most powerful corporate interests in the nation.

    In 1938, Mussolini brought his vision of fascism into full reality when he dissolved Parliament and replaced it with the "Camera dei Fasci e delle Corporazioni" - the Chamber of the Fascist Corporations. Corporations were still privately owned, but now instead of having to sneak their money to folks like Tom DeLay and covertly write legislation, they were openly in charge of the government.
    Last edited by haymarket; 09-11-11 at 08:24 PM.
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  7. #137
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    Re: Is Labor a Commodity?

    Quote Originally Posted by atrasicarius View Post
    Yes, they're pretty similar in function. They're complete, polar opposites in how you get to them, though. Fascism is the logical conclusion of corporatism, which is the logical conclusion of an unregulated free market. Authoritarian socialism is the result of a failed communist revolution. Fascism isn't about a powerful government. Fascism is about a government so weak, it's been completely subsumed by the corporations, and become indistinguishable from them. The results look pretty much the same as totalitarianism, except that the people on the right are fine with it, because it's all done in the private sector.
    Opinion noted, not necessarily agreed to



  8. #138
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    Re: Is Labor a Commodity?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    The rich should indeed give thanks that they are allowed to live in a land where they can keep so much of their wealth as compared to other nations which are no so generous to the wealthy.

    The Far right libertarian fringe is the closest thing we have in this nation to fascism. When I look at the creation of the right wing - The American Legislative Exchange Council ALEC and how they allow major corporations to buy voting seats at the table along with elected state legislators to determine policy which is then strongly suggested to state legislatures around the land - I cannot help but remember how the fascist supreme - Benito Mussolini - dissolved the elected Italian parliament and replaced it with a body of corporatists ALEC seems to be using Mussolini as its model.
    the poor should give thanks that others allow them to eat and survive. The poor need the government far more than the rich and the resourceful



  9. #139
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    Re: Is Labor a Commodity?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    The same source as all money has- our country's economy. We have a bunch of rules and norms laid out. Those rules and norms determine who gets what. When any of those rules result in any money going to people who need it, you get mad. When any of those rules result in money going to people who don't need it, you are happy.
    You sure project much onto me. i don't get mad here, this is entertainment. and tax cuts are not giving the rich anything. its the middle and lower classes who are given stuff by the government

    that is why your leader believes that cutting government is the sacrifice the lower classes have to make while paying more taxes is the sacrifice the top taxpayers have to make

    that claim shows Obama believes that government benefits mainly those who are not top tax payers



  10. #140
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    Re: Is Labor a Commodity?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the poor should give thanks that others allow them to eat and survive. The poor need the government far more than the rich and the resourceful
    I am sure they are thankful. In a democratic republic where so many are poor and so few are rich, you really do not have much choice then do you?

    And since you failed to speak to it, I must conclude the lesson on Mussolini and fascism as advanced by ALEC and the American far right convinced you.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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