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Should we legalize sexual freedom?

Should we legalize all sex between consenting adults?

  • Yes

    Votes: 32 78.0%

  • No

    Votes: 9 22.0%
  • Total voters
    41
sangha said:
Not all problems are the same, and there is plenty of sexual slavery in the US now. Legalization has not always worked, even in the US. Nor has prohibition. There is no one magic formula (ex "Legalize it", "Ban it") that is guaranteed success.

The legalization of prostitution in the Netherlands has resulted in increases in a number of crimes relating to drugs and sexual slavery and human trafficking. The legalization of certain financial institutions and practices has led our economy to crash. Legalization, regulation, prohibition, de-regulation - none of these are cure-alls. Each situation requires it's own set of policies to deal with it. And the fact remains that very very few people become prostitutes without there being some form of coercion involved
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blah blah blah
so you have no logic to support your nonsense of a claim would happen here in america, I get it.

All you are offering now is things that nobody said. Who said there is a "magic formula" i certainly didnt, as a matter of fact I said the opposite, I said "nothing works perfect"

and your last stat is also MEANINGLESS to the debate
why?
because currently its illegal LOL

of course something illegal most people are talked into, forced in to or do it in desperation, coercion could probably apply to the majority of CRIMES or things illegal.
 
Temporal said:
The law is quite irrelevant here for the most part. Adults do have sexual freedom anyway. What two consenting adults do in their own privacy can't fall under the purview of the law, even if the law wants it to. Think about sodomy laws. Have they actually succeeded in stopping it from happening? Doubtful. You can't put cameras in every person's bedroom so how do you expect to have any enforcement?

The law is just a moral statement, and when it comes to adult sexuality that is consenting, the morality of the law is not only irrelevant, but it should be openly opposed. It's my body and my choice. That goes for everyone else. I was born into this life with free will and if I want to explore and enjoy my body to the fullest, I'm going to do it whether the law says it's okay or not.

The only thing the law really does in this regard is hinder a person's agency. If something goes wrong or you are violated during an act that was initially consensual - i.e. rape - you won't get any sympathy. A lot of prostitutes who are raped have this problem. If they go to the law, they themselves are at risk for being arrested, even though what was done to them was illegal. Jury bias also works this way against prostitutes.

Most laws instituting sexual morality need to go. I don't care what prudish conservatives think about their own bodies. Their own discomfort is none of my business, and my sex life is none of theirs.
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common sense and logic at its finest ;)
 
Forgot to add... I am also against legalizing prostitution. If you legalize it, then you also legalize the scum who engage in human trafficking that trap women (and their children) in all corners of the world. It's de facto indentured servitude.

We should decriminalize the SEX WORKERS, while keeping sex trafficking illegal. This takes the power away from the pimps and other scum, and gives the sex workers free reign and agency to do what they want. They can stay, or they can go. It makes zero sense to be arresting sex workers. Either way you slice it, they are not doing anything wrong.

However, decriminalization or legalization is a tough sell because the upper crust in our society doesn't want exposure. The current stereotype is that low life, lower class men seek sexual services. Actually, a high degree of white collar people seek those services, including politicians. They have the money and they can afford the best services. No one wants that kind of paper trail.
 
Centrist77 said:
blah blah blah
so you have no logic to support your nonsense of a claim would happen here in america, I get it.

All you are offering now is things that nobody said. Who said there is a "magic formula" i certainly didnt, as a matter of fact I said the opposite, I said "nothing works perfect"

and your last stat is also MEANINGLESS to the debate
why?
because currently its illegal LOL

of course something illegal most people are talked into, forced in to or do it in desperation, coercion could probably apply to the majority of CRIMES or things illegal.
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blah, blah blah

so you have no logic to support your nonsense of a claim would happen here in america, I get it.

You have presented no evidence whatsoever. All you can do is claim that it wouldn't be the same here, even though there is clear evidence indicating the dangers prostitution presents to our society and to individuals

Even more ridiculous is your claim that most crimes are committed by people who are coerced into engaging in criminal behavior while ignoring that thousands (if not millions) of women and children are coerced into prostitution

Temporal said:
Forgot to add... I am also against legalizing prostitution. If you legalize it, then you also legalize the scum who engage in human trafficking that trap women (and their children) in all corners of the world. It's de facto indentured servitude.
We should decriminalize the SEX WORKERS, while keeping sex trafficking illegal. This takes the power away from the pimps and other scum, and gives the sex workers free reign and agency to do what they want. They can stay, or they can go. It makes zero sense to be arresting sex workers. Either way you slice it, they are not doing anything wrong.
However, decriminalization or legalization is a tough sell because the upper crust in our society doesn't want exposure. The current stereotype is that low life, lower class men seek sexual services. Actually, a high degree of white collar people seek those services, including politicians. They have the money and they can afford the best services. No one wants that kind of paper trail.
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I think your distinguising between decriminalizing the prostitutes but not the pimps and johns was brilliant! Good work
 
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Temporal said:
Forgot to add... I am also against legalizing prostitution. If you legalize it, then you also legalize the scum who engage in human trafficking that trap women (and their children) in all corners of the world. It's de facto indentured servitude.

We should decriminalize the SEX WORKERS, while keeping sex trafficking illegal. This takes the power away from the pimps and other scum, and gives the sex workers free reign and agency to do what they want. They can stay, or they can go. It makes zero sense to be arresting sex workers. Either way you slice it, they are not doing anything wrong.

However, decriminalization or legalization is a tough sell because the upper crust in our society doesn't want exposure. The current stereotype is that low life, lower class men seek sexual services. Actually, a high degree of white collar people seek those services, including politicians. They have the money and they can afford the best services. No one wants that kind of paper trail.
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???? how do you keep prostitution illegal but decriminalize sex workers?

I understand what you are saying I dont want abusive pimps etc but they would go away with regulation.

Im just confused on what you are saying?
 
sangha said:
blah, blah blah

so you have no logic to support your nonsense of a claim would happen here in america, I get it.

You have presented no evidence whatsoever. All you can do is claim that it wouldn't be the same here, even though there is clear evidence indicating the dangers prostitution presents to our society and to individuals

Even more ridiculous is your claim that most crimes are committed by people who are coerced into engaging in criminal behavior while ignoring that thousands (if not millions) of women and children are coerced into prostitution
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thats what I thought, you got nothing. When I present you with logic all you did is try to repeat me and fail but yet supplied nothing of your own. You made random blanket statements that mean nothing and nobody said.

thanks LMAO
 
Centrist77 said:
???? how do you keep prostitution illegal but decriminalize sex workers?

I understand what you are saying I dont want abusive pimps etc but they would go away with regulation.

Im just confused on what you are saying?
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He didn't say make prostitution legal but decriminalize sex workers.

And abusive pimps wouldn't go away with regulation. Abusive employers haven't gone away with regulation.
 
Centrist77 said:
thats what I thought, you got nothing. When I present you with logic all you did is try to repeat me and fail but yet supplied nothing of your own. You made random blanket statements that mean nothing and nobody said.

thanks LMAO
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Unlike you, I have posted evidence about what happens when you make prostitution illegal. You've posted nothing but your own claims, devoid of any supporting evidence.
 
sangha said:
He didn't say make prostitution legal but decriminalize sex workers.

And abusive pimps wouldn't go away with regulation. Abusive employers haven't gone away with regulation.
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oh good lord more dishonesty

so are you suggesting that what pimps typically are today (women beaters, drug users, scums, criminals) wouldnt change if prostitution was legal and regulated?

you get there would be job codes and health codes and now there would be all the laws that go with something legal right?

all "pimps" or madams, sirs, supervisors what ever you call them could have criminal records, would have to pass a drug test, there services would get inspected to make sure of no health violations or code violations etc etc etc

so yes in general pimps would NOT exist in the LEGAL REGULATED world. They would still though on the smaller shrinking black market illegal world though.

Its like you think that once its legal that the only changes people want is not arresting pimps and prostitutes????

Nope thats not it, we want it regulated. Just like I cant decided to just randomly be a home builder. I got city codes, state codes, county codes and inspectors to deal with. Back ground checks, and auditors to deal with. All my workers have to be certified and of a certain age and qualification etc etc. I have to have certain qualification etc

I think you skip over the word regulation and what that means in america. LOL
 
Centrist77 said:
oh good lord more dishonesty

so are you suggesting that what pimps typically are today (women beaters, drug users, scums, criminals) wouldnt change if prostitution was legal and regulated?
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More dishonesty

you get there would be job codes and health codes and now there would be all the laws that go with something legal right?
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We have all sorts of laws and people still break them


all "pimps" or madams, sirs, supervisors what ever you call them could have criminal records, would have to pass a drug test, there services would get inspected to make sure of no health violations or code violations etc etc etc
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Umm, criminals rarely subject themselves to inspections.

so yes in general pimps would NOT exist in the LEGAL REGULATED world. They would still though on the smaller shrinking black market illegal world though.
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You claim a shrinking black market, but present no evidence. Amsterdams experience indicates the otherwise. Illegal trafficking in humans and drugs has INCREASED since they legalized both


Its like you think that once its legal that the only changes people want is not arresting pimps and prostitutes????
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It's like you think once it's legal the criminals will just obey the law


Nope thats not it, we want it regulated. Just like I cant decided to just randomly be a home builder. I got city codes, state codes, county codes and inspectors to deal with. Back ground checks, and auditors to deal with. All my workers have to be certified and of a certain age and qualification etc etc. I have to have certain qualification etc
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And there's plenty of fraud in the construction industry. Plenty of organized crime too.

And the sex industry is a lot different than the sex industry.

I think you skip over the word regulation and what that means in america. LOL
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I'd say that you're the guilty one when it comes to that.
 
sangha said:
Unlike you, I have posted evidence about what happens when you make prostitution illegal. You've posted nothing but your own claims, devoid of any supporting evidence.
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actually you didnt, you told me what happened in another country that is NOT america LMAO
I could do that about anything, that is NOT america I dont care

I posted what AMERICA already did to slavery and discrimination and what we already do to sex offenders and ones that deal with minors. We OVER punish them in some cases, minors shouldnt have to register as sex offenders for a 17yr old sending a 16yr old naked pictures. I also gave an example of something america made legal that was once illegal (alcohol) and how it got BETTER with less mob involvement and crime.

THATS what REALLY happened you just didnt like it :shrug:

like I said you let me know when you have something to support you over the top movie claim. Because currently you posted ZERO evidence of it happening here.
 
dixiesolutions said:
Homosexuality is wrong and should be classified as a criminal act.

It is Un-Normal.

It is a Mental and Health Sickness that needs to be addresed and delt with.

Have we forgotten about the Aides Desease?....Or has it been just swept under the rug?

Todays society has made Homosexuality part of the norm, not realizing the severe problem it will have in future society.
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It should not be a crime...why would you make it a crime to be what you are ? The same laws should apply to Gays as straights...public lewedness...etc...
 
Centrist77 said:
actually you didnt, you told me what happened in another country that is NOT america LMAO
I could do that about anything, that is NOT america I dont care
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You seem to be unable to post any evidence that it would work any differently in the US. All you have is your faith based claim that it would be different.


I posted what AMERICA already did to slavery and discrimination and what we already do to sex offenders and ones that deal with minors. We OVER punish them in some cases, minors shouldnt have to register as sex offenders for a 17yr old sending a 16yr old naked pictures. I also gave an example of something america made legal that was once illegal (alcohol) and how it got BETTER with less mob involvement and crime.
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Actually, it worked the same way in other countries that have banned alcohol, slavery and discrimination. All you've done is weaken your argument that AMERICA is somehow different.

THATS what REALLY happened you just didnt like it :shrug:
 
sangha said:
More dishonesty



We have all sorts of laws and people still break them




Umm, criminals rarely subject themselves to inspections.



You claim a shrinking black market, but present no evidence. Amsterdams experience indicates the otherwise. Illegal trafficking in humans and drugs has INCREASED since they legalized both




It's like you think once it's legal the criminals will just obey the law





And there's plenty of fraud in the construction industry. Plenty of organized crime too.

And the sex industry is a lot different than the sex industry.



I'd say that you're the guilty one when it comes to that.
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this might be the silliest post ive read in a long time.

yes people break laws MEANINGLES and does nothing to support your false claim

yes criminals dont subject themselves to inspections, guess what then they could be part of the LEGAL jobs then, again another MEANINGLESS point to the debate

Amsterdam is meaningless get that through your head. LMAO
the black market would shrink because it would have no choice. Common sense.

I dont care what the CRIMINALS do it has no barring on the LEGAL world I am talking about. and again is meaningless to your false claim.

you have supplied no logic or evidence to make me think that SLAVERY and CHILD TRAFFICKING for sex would increase in AMERICA.

I mean since we are so laid back on those crimes now. LMAO
 
sangha said:
He didn't say make prostitution legal but decriminalize sex workers.

And abusive pimps wouldn't go away with regulation. Abusive employers haven't gone away with regulation.
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It is legal to employ someone and most employers are not abusive. Yes some are and while there would still be some abusive employers in prostitution legal markets would reduce the violence. If legalized I am sure it would be an area that employed occupational licensing.
 
sangha said:
You seem to be unable to post any evidence that it would work any differently in the US. All you have is your faith based claim that it would be different.
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actually i did you just try to ignore it
the proof is how we already fixed and feel about slavery and minor/sex laws

that IS proof.

In AMERICA we dont just turn a blind cheek to sex crimes and minors.

in amsterdam do people get locked up for having child porn on their computer thats 5 years old? nope because the guy in america that got locked up for it got it on line from some guy in amsterdam LMAO




sangha said:
Actually, it worked the same way in other countries that have banned alcohol, slavery and discrimination. All you've done is weaken your argument that AMERICA is somehow different.

THATS what REALLY happened you just didnt like it :shrug:
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where you fail is you keep referring to other countries, they dont matter.

please wipe the egg off your face because trying to repeat me and not even having the logic to connect any dots is making you look foolish :D

mean while im still waiting for proof that the dramatic raise of slavery and sex trafficking of children would go on in america and why?

Ill keep waiting for you to answer.
 
Centrist77 said:
this might be the silliest post ive read in a long time.

yes people break laws MEANINGLES and does nothing to support your false claim

yes criminals dont subject themselves to inspections, guess what then they could be part of the LEGAL jobs then, again another MEANINGLESS point to the debate

Amsterdam is meaningless get that through your head. LMAO
the black market would shrink because it would have no choice. Common sense.

I dont care what the CRIMINALS do it has no barring on the LEGAL world I am talking about. and again is meaningless to your false claim.

you have supplied no logic or evidence to make me think that SLAVERY and CHILD TRAFFICKING for sex would increase in AMERICA.

I mean since we are so laid back on those crimes now. LMAO
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Even if it's legalized, there will be a demand for cheap sex, and that will be an incentive for a black market, just as higher taxes have created a black market for cigarettes. Sure you can get women to freely choose to be pros for $5000 a pop, but very few men can afford that. You won't be able to get enough women to do it at a price cheap enough to meet the demand for men who can't afford to pay so much but want the service at a price they can afford. This means that there will always be a black market for sex providers, and they won't submit to regulation. This is the problem that is happening in Amsterdam. This is why, in spite of legalization, they are seeing a dramatic increase in criminality relating to the sex industry.

Your claims about how this would be different in the US has no basis in fact. The same factors (ie the lack of women willing to engage in sex for a price low enough that men can afford) apply here, so the result would be the same. In fact, it is already happening now.
 
Centrist77 said:
actually i did you just try to ignore it
the proof is how we already fixed and feel about slavery and minor/sex laws
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Slavery, as once practiced in the US is much different than prostitution. And the US has a huge problem now with minors and adult women engaged in the sex industry. Making it legal does nothing to deal with the disparity between supply and demand in the sex industry and the human trafficking that results.

where you fail is you keep referring to other countries, they dont matter.

please wipe the egg off your face because trying to repeat me and not even having the logic to connect any dots is making you look foolish :D

mean while im still waiting for proof that the dramatic raise of slavery and sex trafficking of children would go on in america and why?

Ill keep waiting for you to answer.
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where you fail is you keep claiming that we are somehow different without every proving it. We have the same problems with the sex industry that every other western nation has regardless of whether they have made prostitution legal.

And the reason why legalizing prostitution would do nothing to limit the amount of abuse (ie the disparity between the supply of affordable sex workers and the demand) has already been explained. Keep pretending that it hasn't and maybe someone won't notice the egg on your face
 
sangha said:
Even if it's legalized, there will be a demand for cheap sex, and that will be an incentive for a black market, just as higher taxes have created a black market for cigarettes. Sure you can get women to freely choose to be pros for $5000 a pop, but very few men can afford that. You won't be able to get enough women to do it at a price cheap enough to meet the demand for men who can't afford to pay so much but want the service at a price they can afford. This means that there will always be a black market for sex providers, and they won't submit to regulation. This is the problem that is happening in Amsterdam. This is why, in spite of legalization, they are seeing a dramatic increase in criminality relating to the sex industry.

Your claims about how this would be different in the US has no basis in fact. The same factors (ie the lack of women willing to engage in sex for a price low enough that men can afford) apply here, so the result would be the same. In fact, it is already happening now.
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IN AMSTERDAM, meaningless, $5000 dollars? more movie stuff

mean while im still waiting for proof that the dramatic raise of slavery and sex trafficking of children would go on in america and why?

Ill keep waiting for you to answer.
 
sangha said:
Slavery, as once practiced in the US is much different than prostitution. And the US has a huge problem now with minors and adult women engaged in the sex industry. Making it legal does nothing to deal with the disparity between supply and demand in the sex industry and the human trafficking that results.



where you fail is you keep claiming that we are somehow different without every proving it. We have the same problems with the sex industry that every other western nation has regardless of whether they have made prostitution legal.

And the reason why legalizing prostitution would do nothing to limit the amount of abuse (ie the disparity between the supply of affordable sex workers and the demand) has already been explained. Keep pretending that it hasn't and maybe someone won't notice the egg on your face
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how old are you and are you amrican, just curious since all you try to do is repeat me LOL
I again wait your proof about what would happen in america and WHY

so far you have offered fantasy and what happens in amsterdam, you whole dream rest on america basically giving up and allowing slavery and child sex trafficking based on the demand of an industry, thats why its nonsense.

Maybe amsterdam needs that money to survive? we dont

your whole fantasy depends on america failing, wont happen
 
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Centrist77 said:
IN AMSTERDAM, meaningless, $5000 dollars? more movie stuff

mean while im still waiting for proof that the dramatic raise of slavery and sex trafficking of children would go on in america and why?

Ill keep waiting for you to answer.
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Very few people are going to voluntarily become prostitutes for $20 bucks a pop, so there will always be an incentive for a black market. As long as criminals can force people to be sex workers, there will be sexual slavery.
 
Centrist77 said:
how old are you and are you amrican, just curious since all you try to do is repeat me LOL
I again wait your proof about what would happen in america and WHY

so far you have offered fantasy and what happens in amsterdam, you whole dream rest on america basically giving up and allowing slavery and child sex trafficking based on the demand of an industry, thats why its nonsense.

Maybe amsterdam needs that money to survive? we dont

your whole fantasy depends on america failing, wont happen
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Now you're resorting to ad homs because you can't deny that there will always be a demand for a black market in sex.
 
sangha said:
Now you're resorting to ad homs because you can't deny that there will always be a demand for a black market in sex.
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nope its an honest question when presented somebody basically saying "i know you ar ebut what am i"

also I never denied there would be black market demand, dont put words in my mouth and lie, it just wouldnt corrupt america and make us have this fantasy explosion of slavery and child abuse
 
Centrist77 said:
nope its an honest question when presented somebody basically saying "i know you ar ebut what am i"

also I never denied there would be black market demand, dont put words in my mouth and lie, it just wouldnt corrupt america and make us have this fantasy explosion of slavery and child abuse
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It wouldn't reduce it either, but it would put a lot of money in the hands of criminals who have an incentive to use coercion in order to lower the prices their employees can charge their customers.

And while you keep claiming that it would be different in the US, you have presented no evidence to support it. Posting what happened with slavery and alcohol bans in the US does not prove that the US is different when the same things happened in other countries. All you've done is shown that the US is the same.
 
sangha said:
Very few people are going to voluntarily become prostitutes for $20 bucks a pop, so there will always be an incentive for a black market. As long as criminals can force people to be sex workers, there will be sexual slavery.
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oh good lord more stuff made up we went from $5000 to 20?

and again nobody said there would be no sex works / slavery what there will NOT be is some huge out of control increase like you suggested, please stay on the topic of your false statements and not try to change it

america simply wont legalize it or we will and we will handle it, its what we do. I dont buy in to the mayhem theory that the sky will fall and we will be Amsterdam. Not logic to do so.
 
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