View Poll Results: Should we legalize all sex between consenting adults?

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Thread: Should we legalize sexual freedom?

  1. #71
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    Re: Should we legalize sexual freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by atrasicarius View Post
    You mean like happens now with pornography? Oh wait, that doesn't happen at all, ever, does it?
    I said it would be funny, didn't I? I didn't say it would happen.

    Your point about porn actresses is a good one actually. The reason that my scenario doesn't play out is, I think, because state employment bureaus don't accept job requests for porn actresses. I don't know this for a fact, but I suspect that this is what is going on. If this is so, then this leads to the question of why they're not advertising legal jobs.

  2. #72
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    Re: Should we legalize sexual freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    normalizing?
    LMAO
    this always makes me life because it irrelevant and subjective.

    also nobody said they want "inbreeding"


    THIS is your reply to the statement "Most sex happens with birth control and no intent for offspring."

    not sure about the birth control part but its absolutely true that most sex happens with no INTENT for off spring

    a million abortions a year is PROOF of that on two levels.
    one obviously a million people had no intent for a child and choose to abort
    two im quite sure the 350million in the US have sex more than just a million times every year, hell myself alone im good for at least 600.

    In general people ARE careful on avg.
    Well said. I would add that some people are incapable of reproducing. People who have had a hysterectomy or a vasectomy cannot. The elderly cannot. People cannot reproduce from gay sex. In all these cases, there is no danger of pregnancy. Even in the case of related and fertile males and females having sex with no birth control, they're still more likely to produce healthy offspring than genetically defective ones. And the risk goes down the more distantly they're related. There's less risk with cousins than with siblings, for example. Again, I'm not recommending that related people have sex. I'm only saying the government should not make it illegal.

    Quote Originally Posted by dixiesolutions View Post
    Homosexuality is wrong and should be classified as a criminal act.

    It is Un-Normal.
    I think you mean "abnormal." And it's not. No one's being sick simply by being gay.

    Quote Originally Posted by dixiesolutions View Post
    ... Have we forgotten about the Aides Desease?....Or has it been just swept under the rug?...
    AIDS is caused by a virus, not by homosexuality.

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    I find your topic kind of funny. Not in a bad way though. Here's what I find funny. In the world there are sexual standards which are all socially constructed. Sexual Act A is a good type of sex, Sexual Act B is not as widely accepted as Sexual Act A, Sexual Act C is grudgingly condoned but not really encouraged, Sexual Act D is frowned up but not illegal, Sexual Act E is illegal, etc.

    What you want to do is wipe out all of the social construction that surrounds sex. What you don't want to do is wipe out the social construction which surrounds the concept of age of consent. Now that's funny. ...

    If you're prepared to overturn social constructions on sexual behavior, then why not on age of consent? Is a person who is 18 years and one day old a fully functioning adult who is capable of deciding for themselves what is in their best interests with regards to the types of sex that they want to enjoy but a person two days younger, a person who is 17 years and 364 days old is a minor who is not capable of deciding for themselves what is in their best interests with regards to the types of sex that they want to enjoy.
    Someone who has sex with a ten year-old does irreparable harm to that person's psyche. Sex with a child can rob it of a quality sex life later as an adult. It's all about harms. Gay people having sex harms no one. Paid adult sex harms no one. Non-reproductive adult incest doesn't either. The rape of a child causes tremendous harm.

    You've shown an example where an age of consent law is arguably too high. That doesn't mean we shouldn't have any age of consent laws. If we didn't, someone could legally have sex with a five year-old. We have to have a reasonable standard.

    I'm not saying there should be no legal standards governing human sexuality. I'm saying “consenting adults in privacy” should be the standard.

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    I wanted to vote yes, but then I thought about... and I am not sure what you mean exactly.

    Necrophilia should be illegal...
    Necrophilia is not sex between consenting adults. A dead person cannot consent at the time of the act.

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Sex in public places should be illegal...
    I agree. That's also not a case of consenting adults in privacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Prostitution, it's fine to legalize by me.
    What goes on between two consenting adults is none of my business.
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    You know what will be funny? When prostitution is legalized and state employment agencies send women to whorehouses for job interviews. Then when the women refuse to take the offered job, (remember, being a whore is now a legal type of employment) these women will be cut off from unemployment benefits because they refused to work in a legal job. Same situation, of course, would apply to homosexual men for work in homosexual bordellos and of course, heterosexual men for work as gigolos.
    That's silly. People aren't currently forced to take a sex worker job. No one is forced to work as a stripper or as a porn star. No one's going to be forced to be a prostitute if it's legalized. That's not happening in Nevada.

  3. #73
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    Re: Should we legalize sexual freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Luna Tick View Post
    Someone who has sex with a ten year-old does irreparable harm to that person's psyche. Sex with a child can rob it of a quality sex life later as an adult. It's all about harms. Gay people having sex harms no one. Paid adult sex harms no one. Non-reproductive adult incest doesn't either. The rape of a child causes tremendous harm.

    You've shown an example where an age of consent law is arguably too high. That doesn't mean we shouldn't have any age of consent laws. If we didn't, someone could legally have sex with a five year-old. We have to have a reasonable standard.

    I'm not saying there should be no legal standards governing human sexuality. I'm saying “consenting adults in privacy” should be the standard.
    What is so special about the socially constructed meanings of "consenting adults" in your proposal? How come out of all of that social construction about sexuality that you want to throw out of the window, you're clinging to this as the iron-fast rule?

    If it's OK for an adult daughter to have sex with her father then why is it wrong for a 16 year old girl to have sex with a 30 year old man or a 15 year old boy to have sex with a 35 year old woman? Plenty of people used to get married at 15 and 16. They used to get married even younger. Why are you socially restricting these people from the world of "consenting adults" when they are, in fact, giving consent for these older people to have sex with them?

    If you're throwing away social construction with regards to sex then why are you clinging to the social fiction that age determines ability to give informed consent. There very well could be some 12 year olds who want to have sex with a 25 year old family friend that they have a crush on and who have thought about this long and hard, who understand that older people often take advantage of younger people in order to have sex with them, etc and has weighed the pros and cons and decided that she wants to have sex. Your social construction that you impose on this 12 year old girls is that she is not mature enough to decide for herself that she can consent to sex. You don't know her, you're applying a made-up social construction to her. However, if you deny her sanction to have sex with her 25 year old love object, she can still have sex with 12 year old Bobby across the street.

    There are pretty good reasons why society shouldn't encourage fathers and daughters, even in adulthood, and mothers and sons, from getting it on. You're happy to throw those reasons out the window, so why not do the same for children or do the same for children who can get parental permission to have sex. (I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that conversation, but anyway . . )

    If the issues devolves to harms, then how do you balance these two scenarios:

    1.) An adult daughter decides to get it on with her father. Afterwards she is horrified by the memories of that encounter.
    1.) An adult woman is date raped by a man she was going to have sex with, but not just yet. She's angry that he took advantage of her in a non-violent way but she decides to continue seeing him.

    Which situation produces the greatest harm? The one where the adult consented or the one where the adult didn't consent?

    If the concern for minors is that harm will befall them, what special harm comes to a 15 year old girl who has a committed relationship with a 30 year old man that doesn't befall her from being pumped and dumped by the high school quarterback? The point here is that we can conceive of circumstances where same-age sexual encounters between minors produce more harm than minor-adult sexual encounters.

    Again, I don't understand why you're clinging to the age-of-consent social construction when you're prepared to jettison every other social taboo regarding sex?

  4. #74
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    Re: Should we legalize sexual freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    It's awkward that the same people who say others can't be trusted to make the right sexual decisions are some of the most adamant defenders of people purchasing guns and being trusted to make the right decisions.
    The right to keep and bear arms is a constitutional right. Sleeping with someone of the same gender, your sister, a minor, a prostitute or who ever else is not a constitutional right. Citizens exercising their their 2nd amendment rights keeps the government on their toes and in check.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  5. #75
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    Re: Should we legalize sexual freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Is there any actual unbiased proof to support this claim of yours?
    Snazzy dresser, walks funny and talks funny. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and talks like a duck...

  6. #76
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    Re: Should we legalize sexual freedom?

    Sigh. The stupid arguments when it comes to homosexuality will never go away it seems....

    Quote Originally Posted by dixiesolutions View Post
    Homosexuality is wrong and should be classified as a criminal act.
    What about it specifically should be considered criminal and in any way falls under the perview of what the government can and cannot legislate against?

    It is Un-Normal.
    So is red hair, left handedness, enjoyment of Anime, or voting (the majority of American's don't do it).

    Shall we criminalize all those things since they're "un-normal" as well?

    It is a Mental and Health Sickness that needs to be addresed and delt with.
    Except for the people who actually make a career of studying Mental Sickness state the exact opposite. Strange.

    Have we forgotten about the Aides Desease?....Or has it been just swept under the rug?
    Nope. Aids exists, not swept under the rug, not forgotten. What's it got to do with homosexuals. A gay person having sex with someone with HIV is not inherently more likely to get aids then a straight person having sex with someone with HIV. Last I checked there is no credible research suggesting being homosexual makes one inherently more suseptible to AIDS.

    Todays society has made Homosexuality part of the norm, not realizing the severe problem it will have in future society.
    Actually, society hasn't got close to making Homosexuality part of the norm. What it has however is largely made it something that is not scorned.

  7. #77
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    Re: Should we legalize sexual freedom?

    I think we should legalize those things you mentioned with the exception of sibling and/or parent/child sexual relations. Same sex relations amongst consenting adults should be considered in the same way as opposite relations. The only difference in the two relations is the sexes of those involved. Prostitution should be legalized and heavily regulated so that we can try to help those involved stay as safe as possible.

    I have explained before that I believe that most sibling relations begin when at least one of them was not of consenting age and involves undue influence and/or violence/threats of violence, at least to initiate the relationship. And it can remain well hidden within the family, even from the family in many cases. Older brother sexual abuse is believed to be more prevalent than father/stepfather sexual abuse, which is the most reported form.

    I will put in the caveat though, that siblings who did not know each other til late teens or later should be an exception to this. While I still believe that it is bad for them to have children, there is little chance of undue influence if they didn't know each other til after they are considered old enough to legally consent. And I have no issue with cousins getting together, although I would never do it myself. Most cousins are not raised together like my family, as if they are siblings. In many families now days distant relatives, including cousins, only see each other maybe once every couple of years or so. Even if closer, it is not likely that to expect cousins to develop the same bonds that come from being siblings. And, unless it is multigenerational, cousins procreating does not significantly increase the chance of problems, including mental deficiencies, behavioral issues, genetic defects, or other problems, in offspring.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  8. #78
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    Re: Should we legalize sexual freedom?

    Amsterdam is a good example of why we should not legalize prostitution. It contributes to organized crime, drug trafficking, international slavery and child trafficking
    Prostitution in the Netherlands - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Most prostitutes are estimated to be foreigners.

    In the 1970s, the majority of foreign prostitutes were from Thailand and the Philippines, in the 1980s from Latin America and the Caribbean. After the fall of the Berlin Wall, many prostitutes came from Central and Eastern Europe. No more than one third were Dutch nationals, the remainder representing 44 nationalities. The majority were from the Dominican Republic, Colombia, the Czech Republic, Romania and Poland. [4]

    An article written by Marie-Victoire Louis in Le Monde diplomatique in 1997, claimed that 80% of prostitutes in Amsterdam were foreigners and 70% had no immigration papers (but did not quote the source). [5]

    In 2000, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs estimated that approximately 32% of all prostitutes were Dutch, 22% were Latin American, 19% were Eastern European, 13% were African , 6% came from other countries from the European Union (aside from the Netherlands), 5% came from Northern Africa and 3% were Asian.[citation needed]

    In 2008, Karina Schaapman, a former prostitute and former member of the Amsterdam city council, produced a report about the Amsterdam sex trade. She offered the police a face book with 80 "violent pimps", of whom only three were Dutch-born. She said that more than 75% of Amsterdam's 8,000 to 11,000 prostitutes were from Eastern Europe, Africa and Asia.[6][7]

    A study released by TAMPEP in 2009 put the number of migrant prostitutes at 60% (a decrease from 70% in 2006), originating from: Central Europe (EU) 40%, Latin America 20%, Western Europe 12%, Eastern Europe (non-EU) 8%, Africa 8%, Balkans 4%, Asia 4%, Baltic states 3% (estimates for 2008).[8]
    When the Dutch government legalized prostitution in 2000, it was to protect the women by giving them work permits, but authorities now fear that this business is out of control: "We’ve realized this is no longer about small-scale entrepreneurs, but that big crime organizations are involved here in trafficking women, drugs, killings and other criminal activities", said Job Cohen, the former mayor of Amsterdam.[6] Recently, officials have noticed an increase in violence centered on this irregular industry, and have blamed this increase on the illegal immigration of individuals into Amsterdam to participate in the sex industry: "The guys from Eastern Europe bring in young and frightened women; they threaten them and beat them", said a resident of De Wallen.[6] Prostitution has remained connected to criminal activities, which has led the authorities to take several measures, including detailed plans to help the prostitutes quit the sex trade and find other professions.[17]

    In response to the problems associated with the involvement of organized crime into the sex trade, the Dutch government has decided to close numerous prostitution businesses. Concerned about organized crime, money laundering and human trafficking, Amsterdam officials under Mayor Cohen denied the license renewals of about 30 brothels in the Amsterdam red light district De Wallen in 2006; the brothel owners appealed. To counter negative news reports, the district organized an open house day in 2007 and a statue to an unknown sex worker was unveiled, "intended to honor those employed in the industry world-wide."[18] In September 2007 it was announced that the city of Amsterdam was buying several buildings in the red light district from Charles Geerts in order to close about a third of the windows.[19]
    The Netherlands is listed by the UNODC as a top destination for victims of human trafficking.[22] Countries that are major sources of trafficked persons include Thailand, China, Nigeria, Albania, Bulgaria, Belarus, Moldova, Ukraine,[22] Sierra Leone, and Romania.[23]

    Currently, human trafficking in the Netherlands is on the rise, according to figures obtained from the National Centre against Human Trafficking. The report shows a substantial increase in the number of victims from Hungary and China. There were 809 registered victims of human trafficking in 2008, 763 were women and at least 60 percent of them were forced to work in the sex industry.[24] [25]

    Within the Netherlands, victims are often recruited by so called "loverboys" – men who seduce young Dutch women and girls and later coerce them into prostitution. The phenomenon was highlighted in 2008 by Maria Mosterd, who published a book about her ordeal as the 12-year-old victim of a loverboy.[26] The truthfulness of this book is disputed, and was the subject of an investigative journalism report. [27]

    Many victims of human trafficking are led to believe by organized criminals that they are being offered work in hotels or restaurants or in child care and are forced into prostitution with the threat or actual use of violence. Estimates of the number of victims vary from 1000 to 7000 on a yearly basis. Most police investigations on human trafficking concern legal sex businesses. All sectors of prostitution are well represented in these investigations, but particularly the window brothels are overrepresented. [28] [29] [30]

    At the end of 2008, a gang of six people were sentenced to prison terms of eight months to 7˝ years in what prosecutors said was the worst case of human trafficking ever brought to trial in the Netherlands. The case involved more than 100 female victims, violently forced to work in prostitution.[31] In December 2009, two Nigerian men were sentenced to 4 and 4˝ years in prison for having smuggled 140 Nigerian women aged 16–23 into the Netherlands. The women were made to apply for asylum and then disappeared from asylum centers, to work as prostitutes in surrounding countries. The men were said to have used "voodoo" curses on the women to prevent escape and enforce payment of debts.[32]
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
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  9. #79
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    Re: Should we legalize sexual freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Amsterdam is a good example of why we should not legalize prostitution. It contributes to organized crime, drug trafficking, international slavery and child trafficking
    Prostitution in the Netherlands - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Or we figure out what they are doing wrong, and try to ensure that we don't repeat that. We have prostitution rings in this country that running illegally, both under harsh, violent control, as described above, and as if it were a legitimate business. Maybe we should look at ways to both legalize it and ensure that it is a safe institution.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  10. #80
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    Re: Should we legalize sexual freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Or we figure out what they are doing wrong, and try to ensure that we don't repeat that. We have prostitution rings in this country that running illegally, both under harsh, violent control, as described above, and as if it were a legitimate business. Maybe we should look at ways to both legalize it and ensure that it is a safe institution.
    There doesn't seem to be a way to safely regulate it as long. As long as there is poverty in the world, there will be people who exploit others with promises of gainful employment and then force them into sexual servitude. IMO, there would never be enough people (to keep up with demand) who freely choose to sell their bodies for money so there will always be an incentive to force others to do it.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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