Should we legalize sexual freedom?

sangha said:

It wouldn't reduce it either, but it would put a lot of money in the hands of criminals who have an incentive to use coercion in order to lower the prices their employees can charge their customers.

And while you keep claiming that it would be different in the US, you have presented no evidence to support it. Posting what happened with slavery and alcohol bans in the US does not prove that the US is different when the same things happened in other countries. All you've done is shown that the US is the same.

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I did you just ignored but that doesnt bother me, lot of people ignore common sense and logic. you keep trying to downplay your statement and change it and argue things nobody said also LOL

yes CRIME will exist :shrug: lol

there will be no dramatic increase in it especially in slavery and sex trafficking of kids

and yes crime will go be reduced by default because more people will do it legally and less illegally just like with alcohol, common sense

Centrist77 said:

oh good lord more stuff made up we went from $5000 to 20?

and again nobody said there would be no sex works / slavery what there will NOT be is some huge out of control increase like you suggested, please stay on the topic of your false statements and not try to change it

america simply wont legalize it or we will and we will handle it, its what we do. I dont buy in to the mayhem theory that the sky will fall and we will be Amsterdam. Not logic to do so.

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No one said anything about mayhem. Your need to make up straw men just shows how weak your claims are.

Since the demand for cheap sex will outstrip the supply that american women can provide, sex workers will be imported from countries with a lot of poverty. Women overseas will be promised a real job (as domestic workers, secretaries, etc) and trapped in sexual slavery once they get here. This is what happened in Amsterdam in spite of all their regulations and enforcement, and the only evidence that it would be any different here in the US is your platitudes about "we will handle it, its what we do" even though the facts show we do a very poor job of it

Human trafficking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sex trafficking victims are generally found in dire circumstances and easily targeted by traffickers. Individuals, circumstances, and situations vulnerable to traffickers include homeless individuals, runaway teens, displaced homemakers, refugees, and drug addicts. While it may seem like trafficked people are the most vulnerable and powerless minorities in a region, victims are consistently exploited from any ethnic and social background[14].

Traffickers, also known as pimps or madams, exploit vulnerabilities and lack of opportunities, while offering promises of marriage, employment, education, and/or an overall better life. However, in the end, traffickers force the victims to become prostitutes or work in the sex industry[15]Various work in the sex industry includes prostitution, dancing in strip clubs, performing in pornographic films and pornography, and other forms of involuntary servitude.

Human trafficking does not require travel or transport from one location to another, but one form of sex trafficking involves international agents and brokers who arrange travel and job placements for women from one country. Women are lured to accompany traffickers based on promises of lucrative opportunities unachievable in their native country. However, once they reach their destination, the women discover that they have been deceived and learn the true nature of the work that they will be expected to do. Most have been told lies regarding the financial arrangements and conditions of their employment and find themselves in coercive or abusive situations from which escape is both difficult and dangerous.[16] According to a 2009 U.S. Department of Justice report, there were 1,229 suspected human trafficking incidents in the United States from January 2007- September 2008. Of these, 83 percent were sex trafficking cases, though only 9% of all cases could be confirmed as examples of human trafficking[17]

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Human trafficking in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Forced prostitution and domestic servitude

Research conducted by University of California at Berkeley on behalf of the anti-trafficking organization Free the Slaves found that about 46% of people in slavery in the United States are forced into prostitution. The U.S. Department of Justice prosecuted 360 defendants for Human Trafficking from 2001 to 2007 and gained 238 convictions.[13]

From January 2007 through September 2008, there were 1,229 alleged cases of human trafficking nationally. 1,018 of them, nearly 83 percent, were sex trafficking cases. Sex trafficking has a close relationship with migrant smuggling operations headed by Mexican, Eastern European, and Asian crime organizations. Research on forced prostitution in the US is difficult because it there is limited data on the connection between forced prostitution of migrants and the sex market that already exists in the US.[14] Domestic servitude claims 27% of people in slavery in the US, agriculture 10%, and other occupations 17%.[15][16]

Trafficking within the US occurs as well. It is estimated that between 240,000 and 325,000 children are at risk for sexual exploitation each year in the US. Children who are considered runaways are at particular risk of prostitution or trafficked into the sex industry. Of the 1,682,900 children who were considered runaways for a period of time in 1999, 71% were considered at risk for prostitution. In 2003, 1,400 minors were arrested for prostitution, 14% of whom were younger than 14 years old. A study conducted by the International Labor Union indicated that boys are at a higher risk of being trafficked into agricultural work, the drug trade, and petty crime. Girls were at a higher risk of being forced into the sex industry and domestic work. In 2004, the Department of Labor found 1,087 minors employed in situations that violated Hazardous Occupation Standards. The same year, 5,480 children were employed violating child labor laws. Due to the secretive nature of trafficking, it is difficult to piece together an accurate picture of how widespread the problem is.[17]

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Centrist77 said:

I did you just ignored but that doesnt bother me, lot of people ignore common sense and logic. you keep trying to downplay your statement and change it and argue things nobody said also LOL

yes CRIME will exist :shrug: lol

there will be no dramatic increase in it especially in slavery and sex trafficking of kids

and yes crime will go be reduced by default because more people will do it legally and less illegally just like with alcohol, common sense

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The fact that johns wont be doing anything illegal does not mean that there will be a reduction in the coercion of women to be sex workers or the trafficking in humans

sangha said:

No one said anything about mayhem. Your need to make up straw men just shows how weak your claims are.

Since the demand for cheap sex will outstrip the supply that american women can provide, sex workers will be imported from countries with a lot of poverty. Women overseas will be promised a real job (as domestic workers, secretaries, etc) and trapped in sexual slavery once they get here. This is what happened in Amsterdam in spite of all their regulations and enforcement, and the only evidence that it would be any different here in the US is your platitudes about "we will handle it, its what we do" even though the facts show we do a very poor job of it

Human trafficking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Human trafficking in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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yeaaaaaa a long post that does nothing to prove we would become Amsterdam and slavery and child sex trafficking and mob business would all go up.

all your doing is guessing with nothing of merit, just what happened in Amsterdam, AMERICA IS NOT AMSTERDAM lmao

like I said for this fantasy to happen america would have to fail and basically dramatically change its colors and history, it aint gonna happen.

Centrist77 said:

yeaaaaaa a long post that does nothing to prove we would become Amsterdam and slavery and child sex trafficking and mob business would all go up.

all your doing is guessing with nothing of merit, just what happened in Amsterdam, AMERICA IS NOT AMSTERDAM lmao

like I said for this fantasy to happen america would have to fail and basically dramatically change its colors and history, it aint gonna happen.

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I guess you didn't read the part about sexual slavery in the US.

I'm not surprised. It blows your "we will handle it, its what we do" platitude out of the water

sangha said:

The fact that johns wont be doing anything illegal does not mean that there will be a reduction in the coercion of women to be sex workers or the trafficking in humans

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did I say that??????????? please stop talking double talk and nonsesne
theres people on this board that TRY to coercer women everyday probably. LOL

but what will happen is the numbers that exist will go down because the legal part will eat into their business and way of life just like alcohol did to bootleggers. Oh wait I forgot bootleggers are at an all time high in numbers. LOL

sangha said:

I guess you didn't read the part about sexual slavery in the US.

I'm not surprised. It blows your "we will handle it, its what we do" platitude out of the water

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you are acting like I denied it exists? oh thats right I didnt LMAO

Centrist77 said:

did I say that??????????? please stop talking double talk and nonsesne
theres people on this board that TRY to coercer women everyday probably. LOL

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And when it's legal for the johns, there will be an increase in demand, leading to an increase in human trafficking.

but what will happen is the numbers that exist will go down because the legal part will eat into their business and way of life just like alcohol did to bootleggers. Oh wait I forgot bootleggers are at an all time high in numbers. LOL

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Not the same. You don't have to coerce women into making alcohol. Getting them to have sex for money is different than selling alcohol. Most people can understand this

sangha said:

And when it's legal for the johns, there will be an increase in demand, leading to an increase in human trafficking.

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nope there will be an increase in LEGAL use not ILLEGAL use just like with alcohol
it will almost NEVER be legal for the "johns" because the majority wont be able to get those jobs

sangha said:

Not the same. You don't have to coerce women into making alcohol. Getting them to have sex for money is different than selling alcohol. Most people can understand this

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ok now I know you are just being silly, who said make women make alcohol? why do you make points that nobody said and that are meaningless???

guess what I can do it to, well WATER IS BLUE, see Im right lol

please use something of substance

it will not go up there no logical reason to believe so in AMERICA

Centrist77 said:

nope there will be an increase in LEGAL use not ILLEGAL use just like with alcohol
it will almost NEVER be legal for the "johns" because the majority wont be able to get those jobs

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That made no sense. Johns are not looking to get jobs as prostitutes. I think you're confused.

If the customers no longer have to fear arrest, demand will increase due to the absence of any deterrent effect from the law while the supply will not increase. In order to meet the demand, the black market will increase along with the criminality that accompanies it

ok now I know you are just being silly, who said make women make alcohol? why do you make points that nobody said and that are meaningless???

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Someone has to supply the product. Supplying alcohol is a lot different than supplying sex.

No one contracts deadly diseases selling alcohol. Society doesn't place a stigma on selling alcohol. Parents don't disown their children for selling alcohol. Comparing the selling of sex with the selling of alcohol is deluded.

Listen sangha you are never going to convince me of your nonsense. You have that opinion and thats fine.

We only agree to disagree and that doesnt bother me.

I will continue to base my logic off of AMERICA

how we view slavery and discrimination
how we treat sex criminals especially those dealing with minors
our history
how we regulate things
how we have progressed and have improved in dealing with womens rights
what happened when we legalized alcohol
etc etc

you can base you opinion off of:

what happened in amsterdam LMAO

thats fine by me, do that all you want

usually I would stick around and let you entertain me but im actually having a conversation with rational logic posters else where that is more interesting. maybe Ill play another times.

Centrist77 said:

Listen sangha you are never going to convince me of your nonsense. You have that opinion and thats fine.

We only agree to disagree and that doesnt bother me.

I will continue to base my logic off of AMERICA

how we view slavery and discrimination
how we treat sex criminals especially those dealing with minors
our history
how we regulate things
how we have progressed and have improved in dealing with womens rights
what happened when we legalized alcohol
etc etc

you can base you opinion off of:

what happened in amsterdam LMAO

thats fine by me, do that all you want

.

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wrt your list, you haven't presented any evidence that there's any difference between us and Amsterdam.

usually I would stick around and let you entertain me but im actually having a conversation with rational logic posters else where that is more interesting. maybe Ill play another times

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I accept your surrender

If the United States would have laws towards the Homosexuals, and Transexuals like they have in the Muslim World. Our nation would be a better place to live.
The Islamic Faith does not tolorate Gay lifestyle.....And that's Awesome.

If there is just that one factor about Arabs I like.....It's that.

sangha said:

That made no sense. Johns are not looking to get jobs as prostitutes. I think you're confused.

If the customers no longer have to fear arrest, demand will increase due to the absence of any deterrent effect from the law while the supply will not increase. In order to meet the demand, the black market will increase along with the criminality that accompanies it







Someone has to supply the product. Supplying alcohol is a lot different than supplying sex.

No one contracts deadly diseases selling alcohol. Society doesn't place a stigma on selling alcohol. Parents don't disown their children for selling alcohol. Comparing the selling of sex with the selling of alcohol is deluded.

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customer will fear in doing business with a criminal, the current crack head wont be able to run sex shops LOL you keep missing that with regulation. Going to an illegal sex shop will still be illegal. Just like I cant just open up a bar without a license. FEAR STILL THERE. LMAO

MOST of the the current people running it will lose that business they will be criminals.

later

Centrist77 said:

customer will fear in doing business with a criminal,

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And if it's legalized, they won't be doing business with a criminal, so you just proved my point that legalization will increase demand. Thanks :lol:

the current crack head wont be able to run sex shops LOL you keep missing that with regulation. Going to an illegal sex shop will still be illegal. Just like I cant just open up a bar without a license. FEAR STILL THERE. LMAO

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Increased demand without a commensurate increase in supply will increase human trafficking for the reasons I've explained which you continue to ignore.

MOST of the the current people running it will lose that business they will be criminals.

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You mean like the way that they're losing it now? :roll:

later

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promises, promises

Centrist77 said:

Listen sangha you are never going to convince me of your nonsense. You have that opinion and thats fine.

We only agree to disagree and that doesnt bother me.

I will continue to base my logic off of AMERICA

how we view slavery and discrimination
how we treat sex criminals especially those dealing with minors
our history
how we regulate things
how we have progressed and have improved in dealing with womens rights
what happened when we legalized alcohol
etc etc

you can base you opinion off of:

what happened in amsterdam LMAO

thats fine by me, do that all you want

usually I would stick around and let you entertain me but im actually having a conversation with rational logic posters else where that is more interesting. maybe Ill play another times.

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I've come to learn some people will just never see logic and common sense, their emotions will always drive their rational instead of common sense. While I agree with you that they are very entertaining, sometimes it is best to leave them alone, they will eventually hurt themselves somehow.

When you feed a monkey it might throw **** at you

Anyway I'm with you and the majority, there's no real reason to think crime will increase and we will magically have a high increase in the number of slaves and sex/kid crimes.

O_Guru said:

I've come to learn some people will just never see logic and common sense, their emotions will always drive their rational instead of common sense. While I agree with you that they are very entertaining, sometimes it is best to leave them alone, they will eventually hurt themselves somehow.

Anyway I'm with you and the majority, there's no real reason to think crime will increase and we will magically have a high number of slaves and sex/kid crimes.

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We already have a high number of sex slaves and sex/kid crimes

So you're right about some people never seeing logic and common sense, but you left out their blindness to the facts.

jamesrage said:

If you want inbreeding legal you might as well be condoning it and therefore wanting it.






More than a million abortions a year is proof that people do not use protection,for every one million that are too stupid to use adaquate protection and have an abortion there are almost four million babies a year born in this country and I seriously doubt most of those were planed pregnancies .. The amount of people with STDs in this country isalso proof that people do not use adequate protection.A lot of people stupid they believe in little myths that only having sex in one position can get them pregnant or that if they pull out in time they can't get the woman pregnant or that infected people look a certain or just lie about not having a STD. And if you are going to normalize inbreeding then those people would see nothing wrong with producing offspring because you are telling them that it is okay to inbreed and that it is no different than homosexuality. Do you honestly think in-breeders are going to be smart enough to use adequate protection?

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There's no need to disparage West Virginia.

Morality Games said:

The appropriate action for such feelings is to find prostitutes, discover their reason for engaging in the trade (usually desperation), and help them. Driving them into the dens of pimps who will brutalize and exploit them (sometimes to the point of murder) because of your personal notions of righteous sexual conduct is wrong.

Rule of thumb: don't try to prevent people from performing actions that they have reasoned are right for themselves, unless you are willing (and able) to take responsibility for their needs yourself.

It's worth noting, I believe prostitution is wrong for the reasons you described, but neither of us has the moral authority to make that decision for other human beings. No one gave us that authority, and we were not born with it.

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Marriage is a legal contract, so in essence you are purchasing sex. If you don't believe it, try getting out of it without paying.

sangha said:

And if it's legalized, they won't be doing business with a criminal, so you just proved my point that legalization will increase demand.

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If the prostitute is not properly licensed and/or does not meet the requirements to be licensed, then the prostitute, the prostitute's "employer", and any person who purchases the service of that prostitute are all criminals. The prostitute for not being properly licensed to sell his/her-self, the employer for not ensuring that their employee meets the necessary requirements for fulfilling that position, and the purchaser for not ensuring that the prostitute was legally able to sell them the service.

Sex purchasers are much more likely to go through a legally licensed prostitute than one who isn't. Why do something illegally when you can do the same thing for basically the same amount legally as long as the person you make the purchase from is properly licensed?

roguenuke said:

If the prostitute is not properly licensed and/or does not meet the requirements to be licensed, then the prostitute, the prostitute's "employer", and any person who purchases the service of that prostitute are all criminals. The prostitute for not being properly licensed to sell his/her-self, the employer for not ensuring that their employee meets the necessary requirements for fulfilling that position, and the purchaser for not ensuring that the prostitute was legally able to sell them the service.

Sex purchasers are much more likely to go through a legally licensed prostitute than one who isn't. Why do something illegally when you can do the same thing for basically the same amount legally as long as the person you make the purchase from is properly licensed?

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You two need to get a clue, especially you. This is all way off topic, and you for wasting you time debate Sangha. Damn, get a clue.

Most of what I feel about this subject has already been well represented. I believe any sexual contact between consenting adults should be legal, including prostitution (which, along with The War On Drugs, is part of the Law Enforcement Employment Protection Act).

Some of the hysterics in this thread have been, well, hysterical. The idea that if prostitution is made legal that crime syndicates will leap in and create sex trafficking rings. Ridiculous. First of all, sex trafficking involves non-consentual activity. Second, there are all ready sex trafficking rings operating right here in the good old U.S. of A. They are illegal now, and would remain illegal if prostitution was legalized. They would, however, be less profitable. Crime syndicates and cartels prosper by providing illegal goods and services for which a demand exists. Make prostitution legal, poof. Customers have a clean and legal service to access, and are less likely to utilize the terrified, tear-stained sex slave who takes man after man after man without so much as a sponge bath in between. Well run bordellos can provide clean, medically-certified women who choose prostitution as a career. Frankly, legalization takes a bite out of crime rather than enhancing it.

Now the old in-breeding hysteria. "OMG! If incest isn't illegal, brothers and sisters will be banging Mom, Dad and Grampa every damned day, because there ain't no law against it any more!!" Really? The fact that incest is illegal really stops related individuals from having sexual relations in private now? No, it does not. Will millions of sex-starved citizens suddenly leap the bones of their parents or siblings just because they won't go to jail for doing so? Oh hell no! 99% of people would literally get nauseous at the very thought. So what we are really doing is making incest illegal for the 1% or less of individuals, including distant cousins, who might actually be attracted to a relative. My question... so ****ing what if they are? It's none of our damned business.

The only reasons to keep prostitution illegal is because of religious reasons, individual morality, and to keep vice law enforcement officers off the lay-off list.

We as a nation need to flush laws that prohibit what consenting adults can do with each other or ingest in their own bodies, and concentrate on crime that is inflicted on non-consenting victims. Period.

We need flush a lot of laws. So long as one is not committing fraud, theft, coercion, or violence on another individual how a person lives is nobody elses business.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

roguenuke said:

If the prostitute is not properly licensed and/or does not meet the requirements to be licensed, then the prostitute, the prostitute's "employer", and any person who purchases the service of that prostitute are all criminals. The prostitute for not being properly licensed to sell his/her-self, the employer for not ensuring that their employee meets the necessary requirements for fulfilling that position, and the purchaser for not ensuring that the prostitute was legally able to sell them the service.

Sex purchasers are much more likely to go through a legally licensed prostitute than one who isn't. Why do something illegally when you can do the same thing for basically the same amount legally as long as the person you make the purchase from is properly licensed?

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And the availability of legalized prostitution will increase demand, which in turn will incentivize human trafficking.

I would also point out the the illegal pros will be charging less, so the "basically same amount" part may not necessarily apply

DiAnna said:

Most of what I feel about this subject has already been well represented. I believe any sexual contact between consenting adults should be legal, including prostitution (which, along with The War On Drugs, is part of the Law Enforcement Employment Protection Act).

Some of the hysterics in this thread have been, well, hysterical. The idea that if prostitution is made legal that crime syndicates will leap in and create sex trafficking rings. Ridiculous. First of all, sex trafficking involves non-consentual activity. Second, there are all ready sex trafficking rings operating right here in the good old U.S. of A. They are illegal now, and would remain illegal if prostitution was legalized. They would, however, be less profitable. Crime syndicates and cartels prosper by providing illegal goods and services for which a demand exists. Make prostitution legal, poof. Customers have a clean and legal service to access, and are less likely to utilize the terrified, tear-stained sex slave who takes man after man after man without so much as a sponge bath in between. Well run bordellos can provide clean, medically-certified women who choose prostitution as a career. Frankly, legalization takes a bite out of crime rather than enhancing it.

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Young women in poor countries are promised legitimate jobs. When they arrive, they are forced to perform sex acts for money and threatend with violence if they refuse. They are warned that if they go to the police, they will end up being sent back home, where the sex traffickers can get back at them and their families.

The women who are forced in to sexual slavery have bigger worries than being arrested by the police.