View Poll Results: Should we legalize all sex between consenting adults?

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    42 75.00%
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Thread: Should we legalize sexual freedom?

  1. #191
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    Re: Should we legalize sexual freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Kind of like wanting society to fit to your belief that it shouldn't reflect an individuals personal moral beliefs?
    Not wanting society to reflect an individual's personal moral beliefs is not a threat to liberty...at all. In fact, it's the exact opposite.

  2. #192
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    Re: Should we legalize sexual freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    I want to live in a place where people don't think their beliefs should be made law.
    No, you want to live in a place where YOUR beliefs are made law. As indicated by the notion that you would like the laws to be changed to allow consenting adults to engage in any acts they want because it adheres to your beliefs of what government should be and should do.

    You apparently are the the biggest threat to liberty according to your own words.

  3. #193
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    Re: Should we legalize sexual freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Not wanting society to reflect an individual's personal moral beliefs is not a threat to liberty...at all. In fact, it's the exact opposite.
    Not wanting society to reflect an individuals personal morals is in and of itself an individuals personal morals regarding what's right and wrong for a government to do.

    EVERYONE wants the government to adhere to their personal beliefs and morals. Feel that government should be extremely limited and get out of peoples lives? That's a thought based on your personal beliefs and morals that you are placing upon the government. Everyone who has any care or opinion what so ever in regards to what the government should do and suggests that their opinion should be what the government DOES do is suggesting that their personal beliefs or morals are held by the government.

  4. #194
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    Re: Should we legalize sexual freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    So your personal belief is that its Right for the government to pass laws that have a moral element but are aimed at making us physically "safe" but its Wrong to pass laws that have a moral element but aren't aimed at making us physically safe.

    Sure does sound like you're trying to suggest your personal views and beliefs of what's right and wrong regarding the correct way the government should be enacting and upholding laws.
    I do believe it's "right" for the government to pass laws aimed at increasing safety/security and I also believe that murder is "wrong". However, my opinions about the "rightness" and "wrongness" of both actions are not why I take my positions.

    I believe government should evaluate law based on safety/security alone not because of my moral position on the matter, but because it increases freedom (a practical concern). I believe government should outlaw murder not because of my moral position, but because it threatens citizens' safety (a practical concern).

    Just because someone believes something is right or wrong does not mean that their reason for supporting certain actions is based on their moral position. I think that's the thing you're missing when you try to critique liberal positions on liberty and freedom. Furthermore, it is also important to note that eliminating laws that impose morality is not an imposition of morality.
    Last edited by ThePlayDrive; 09-12-11 at 12:52 PM. Reason: grammar

  5. #195
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    Re: Should we legalize sexual freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Not wanting society to reflect an individuals personal morals is in and of itself an individuals personal morals regarding what's right and wrong for a government to do.

    EVERYONE wants the government to adhere to their personal beliefs and morals. Feel that government should be extremely limited and get out of peoples lives? That's a thought based on your personal beliefs and morals that you are placing upon the government. Everyone who has any care or opinion what so ever in regards to what the government should do and suggests that their opinion should be what the government DOES do is suggesting that their personal beliefs or morals are held by the government.
    Wanting the government to stay out of people's lives is less of a personal moral belief than it is a practical position.

  6. #196
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    Re: Should we legalize sexual freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I believe government should evaluate law based on safety/security alone not because of my moral position on the matter, but because it increases freedom (a practical concern).
    Freedom is not inherently "good" or "bad". There is no universal truth. It is your OPINION that its a good thing for people to have more freedom than less. Again, your basis for what the government should or shouldn't do is based on your own morals and beliefs.

    I believe government should outlaw murder not because of my moral position, but because it threatens citizens' safety (a practical concern).
    Again, it is your belief and morals that its the governments responsability and purpose to protect its citizen's safety. Your belief in that makes you wish to impose your views onto other who may want there to be no government, or want the government to worry about safety over at a macro (say a national defense) then micro (acts of one person to another) level. Your beliefs and morals guide you to decide what you feel its correct or right for the government to do.

    Furthermore, it is also important to note that eliminating laws that impose morality is not an imposition of morality.
    It absolutely is in the fact that you're imposing your moral belief that the government should not impose the moral beliefs you disagree with onto people and thus you deny them the ability to do so.

  7. #197
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    Re: Should we legalize sexual freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Wanting the government to stay out of people's lives is less of a personal moral belief than it is a practical position.
    And your rationalization is no different than someone saying disallowing gays to be married is less of a personal moral belief than it is a practical position.

    Its a practical position to THEM based on their own opinions, morals, and the facts they choose to look at based on those things.

    Wanting the government to stay out of peoples lives looks practical to you based on your own opinions, morals, and the facts you chooes to look at based on those things.

    In reality, both instances are someone imposing their beliefs, opinions, and morals onto others through the government.

  8. #198
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    Re: Should we legalize sexual freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    And your rationalization is no different than someone saying disallowing gays to be married is less of a personal moral belief than it is a practical position.
    It's not a "rationalization", it is, in fact, a practical position. Assuming that I'm rationalizing is just your way of dismissing my explanation of my position because you're more interested in keeping your interpretation of my position than the truth of it.

    Its a practical position to THEM based on their own opinions, morals, and the facts they choose to look at based on those things.
    Wanting to ban SSM or prostitution because they're immoral is not a practical position, it's a moral position.

    Wanting the government to stay out of peoples lives looks practical to you based on your own opinions, morals, and the facts you chooes to look at based on those things.
    I do come to conclusions about practicality based on my own opinions and knowledge (yes, knowledge, not "facts I choose to look at" - not everyone is selective about facts). However, it doesn't have anything to do with morals.

    In reality, both instances are someone imposing their beliefs, opinions, and morals onto others through the government.
    Removing laws is not imposition.

  9. #199
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    Re: Should we legalize sexual freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Freedom is not inherently "good" or "bad". There is no universal truth. It is your OPINION that its a good thing for people to have more freedom than less. Again, your basis for what the government should or shouldn't do is based on your own morals and beliefs.
    I don't strive for more freedom because of the moral value of freedom, but because of the practical value it brings to the creation of a stable society. I agree that it is my opinion. I object to your attempts to characterize my opinion as a moral one because it isn't.

    Again, it is your belief and morals that its the governments responsability and purpose to protect its citizen's safety. Your belief in that makes you wish to impose your views onto other who may want there to be no government, or want the government to worry about safety over at a macro (say a national defense) then micro (acts of one person to another) level. Your beliefs and morals guide you to decide what you feel its correct or right for the government to do.
    I agree that it's my belief. I object to your characterization of it as a moral belief, which it is not. And again, "imposition" is a very specific thing - a specific thing that cannot be accomplished by removing impositions.

    It absolutely is in the fact that you're imposing your moral belief that the government should not impose the moral beliefs you disagree with onto people and thus you deny them the ability to do so.
    I think that because morality factors so much into your own decision making that you can't conceive of a person or group that is able to separate morality from practicality. Those people exist, I am one of them and the more you dismiss that reality, the less able you are to understand certain political positions..

  10. #200
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    Re: Should we legalize sexual freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    In other words, laws on murder, rape, theft, slander, etc. would all exist regardless of morality. However, laws banning SSM or polygamy would not.
    Says you without any evidence. Wishful thinking.

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