View Poll Results: Should we legalize all sex between consenting adults?

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Thread: Should we legalize sexual freedom?

  1. #181
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    Re: Should we legalize sexual freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post

    I don't. I could care less what other people believe. All I ask is that I am given liberty to live my life without other people sticking their nose in my business. I'll do the same for them.




    That's not feasible.


    I can't make anything happen, nor do I pretend that my opinion makes even the slightest difference. I don't come here to change minds because I know that is fruitless. Everyone else assumes that they are correct in their beliefs so what would be the point? But I am very frustrated that other people think they have the right to impose their beliefs on me or my family. And it frankly pisses me off when people think they should control how others choose to live. I may disagree with someone else's decisions, but because I want my liberty, I in turn give others that same respect.
    You want to live in a place where anyone can do just about anything. I get it. I want to live in a place where more rules and protections are in place. Why should your want supercede mine? Why should you be protected but not me? I'm not saying, nor have I said, that there shouldn't be a place in the good ole USA for you and people who think like you. You, though, are saying that there shouldn't be a place for me and people who think like me. That's not the same as liberty except in the most anarchy-like sense. That's why much of this should be states rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The government contract that covers the legal relationship between two adults at a certain level is known as marriage. It would be economically stupid to change this just because some people do not approve of having to share the word marriage with others that they do not feel fit that term. And it is wrong, along with economically stupid, to have two different contracts that set up legally the exact same benefits, rights, etc. for a committed couple just due to their relative sexes.



    Except that this means that people who get legally married would be in trouble if they had to move to a state that refused to recognize their marriage contract due to their sexes. What people don't understand is that some people have to move. What about servicemembers who are married in one state but must move to another state that doesn't recognize that couple's marriage, for whatever reason? They would face issues that they should not have to face just due to some arbitrary decision on who should and should not be their legal partner by the state in which they live. Why should this be acceptable?

    DADT is officially repealed September 20th. This means that servicemembers can openly have same sex relationships. It also means that they can marry members of the same sex. Once DOMA goes down, the federal government will recognize those marriages as well. What happens to them if in 5 years, DOMA has gone away but states can refuse to recognize their marriages as legal? What if they are stationed in a state that does not recognize same sex marriages? They will still be discriminated against for the sex of the partner.

    And leaving such decisions in the hands of each state would mean that we would have to also allow interracial marriages to be left up to each state as well. Interfaith marriages would be another issue. States should not be allowed to discriminate just because they are smaller government entities than the federal government.



    Legalizing prostitution is going to take a lot more fighting than same sex marriage. There are certainly issues that will come from legalizing prostitution and a good plan would be needed for dealing with those issues and ensuring that the legalization is made in a way where the benefits of the legalization are seen. Legalizing prostitution should probably stay on the state level or lower, but I could still see a legitimate argument for legalizing it if it did become an issue that went to the SCOTUS. I think one big issue with prostitution is that it is at the state level, despite some local governments wanting to legalize prostitution.

    Having a legal marriage contract involves a lot of everyday legal things that many take for granted. These legal issues affect some couples more than others. I know a lot about how legal marriage can affect your everyday life because I am a military spouse and in the reserves. I live in a house based on my legal marriage status. I am entitled to certain benefits I use throughout the year due to my legal marriage. My husband is entitled to certain benefits throughout the year due to our legal marriage.
    I've agreed that it's not fair for a government to interject itself into marriage or similar relationships. My point is that the "marriage" relationship existed prior to the US existing. If the US gov't wants to define a contract that works for it concerning taxes, inheritance, benefits, etc. that's great - put a name on it and enforce it. Call it "Family Status" or some such thing and regognize "marriage" as a legal form of "Family Status" among other forms. The comment about actually calling it marriage at a state level was just a side comment because I think the local governments should have a lot more control over social issues than the Federal Gov't. After all, you can move to a different state if you don't like the way your state does it. And, if everyone moves to the same state, then other states will see (or not) that there may be good reason to act differently. The term "marriage" is a social issue (state). The "Family Status" example would be a equal protection under the law issue (federal).
    The US is an odd ship. The captain yells out when he sees obtacles , but 535 individual propellers do the steering.

  2. #182
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    Re: Should we legalize sexual freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    Please don't compare sexual freedom between consenting adults to stealing, murder and rape. That's just dumb.

    I never did any such thing. Whether or not these things are similar is not the issue.What is the issue is your asinine remark about how people with moral views are annoying and a threat to freedom. Perhaps you should bother to look up what a word means before you try to bash people.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 09-11-11 at 05:35 PM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  3. #183
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    Re: Should we legalize sexual freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Constitutionality does not dictate whether people will make the right decision.
    Neither do most laws.If someone wants to do something no law on the book is going to stop them.



    The Constitution once tried to get people to stop drinking. History shows people still chose to get hammered. Your argument is a fallacy.
    Almost anything that is illegal to do there are people who still do those things that are illegal. So it is your argument that is a fallacy.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  4. #184
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    Re: Should we legalize sexual freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathematician View Post
    I give it about 10 years until there is major whining for polygamy to be legally recognized.
    So what? Other than adjusting tax laws to reflect only one spousal deduction per household, who really cares? I don't. Just because something is legal doesn't mean I choose to be part of it.

    Now if everyone were forced to partake in polygamous marriage, you'd have a complaint. Otherwise, you got nuttin'.

  5. #185
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    Re: Should we legalize sexual freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenvilleGrows View Post
    You want to live in a place where anyone can do just about anything. I get it.
    Apparently, you don't. But I would like to live in a place where consenting adults can sleep with whom ever they choose without government interference. That is a far cry from anarchy.

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenvilleGrows View Post
    I want to live in a place where more rules and protections are in place. Why should your want supercede mine? Why should you be protected but not me? I'm not saying, nor have I said, that there shouldn't be a place in the good ole USA for you and people who think like you. You, though, are saying that there shouldn't be a place for me and people who think like me. That's not the same as liberty except in the most anarchy-like sense. That's why much of this should be states rights.
    I want to live in a place where people don't think their beliefs should be made law. I believe in limited government. That is about the extent of my beliefs.

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I never did any such thing. Whether or not these things are similar is not the issue.What is the issue is your asinine remark about how people with moral views are annoying and a threat to freedom. Perhaps you should bother to look up what a word means before you try to bash people.
    Which word should I look up? Because what you said was clear to me. And I think that I have also been abundantly clear. Consenting adults should be free to choose their own life styles so long as no one gets hurt. It's called liberty. What a concept.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

  6. #186
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    Re: Should we legalize sexual freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post

    Which word should I look up? Because what you said was clear to me. And I think that I have also been abundantly clear. Consenting adults should be free to choose their own life styles so long as no one gets hurt. It's called liberty. What a concept.
    What does that have to do with your asinine remark that people with morals with moral views are annoying and a threat to freedom? Morals are what is right and wrong and those views vary from person to person. Practically every law on the book is based on someone's morals, the laws that are currently on the books are morals that a lot of agreed to that should be made into law.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  7. #187
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    Re: Should we legalize sexual freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    What does that have to do with your asinine remark that people with morals with moral views are annoying and a threat to freedom? Morals are what is right and wrong and those views vary from person to person. Practically every law on the book is based on someone's morals, the laws that are currently on the books are morals that a lot of agreed to that should be made into law.
    Most laws can be justified by objective standards of safety/security. Laws regarding sexual freedom can only be justified by subjective standards of morality, so comparing such laws to most others is a false comparison. In other words, laws on murder, rape, theft, slander, etc. would all exist regardless of morality. However, laws banning SSM or polygamy would not.

  8. #188
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    Re: Should we legalize sexual freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenvilleGrows View Post
    You want to live in a place where anyone can do just about anything. I get it. I want to live in a place where more rules and protections are in place. Why should your want supercede mine? Why should you be protected but not me? I'm not saying, nor have I said, that there shouldn't be a place in the good ole USA for you and people who think like you. You, though, are saying that there shouldn't be a place for me and people who think like me. That's not the same as liberty except in the most anarchy-like sense. That's why much of this should be states rights.
    Because we are citizens of the United States mainly. The US is who issues your passport to go to different countries, not individual states. Every US citizen should have the right to move to another state without having their freedoms/rights restricted or being discriminated against due to nothing more than a moral standard having zero to do with an actual state interest. A state interest would include safety, protection, and/or welfare of those in that state which is measurable.

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenvilleGrows View Post
    I've agreed that it's not fair for a government to interject itself into marriage or similar relationships. My point is that the "marriage" relationship existed prior to the US existing. If the US gov't wants to define a contract that works for it concerning taxes, inheritance, benefits, etc. that's great - put a name on it and enforce it. Call it "Family Status" or some such thing and regognize "marriage" as a legal form of "Family Status" among other forms. The comment about actually calling it marriage at a state level was just a side comment because I think the local governments should have a lot more control over social issues than the Federal Gov't. After all, you can move to a different state if you don't like the way your state does it. And, if everyone moves to the same state, then other states will see (or not) that there may be good reason to act differently. The term "marriage" is a social issue (state). The "Family Status" example would be a equal protection under the law issue (federal).
    Yet you fail to see that changing the word marriage in the current laws would waste money. It is fiscally irresponsible, especially when we are facing the money problems we are now, to change the word marriage in federal or state laws just to appease some people's sensibilities. Aren't conservatives supposed to be concerned about saving money?

    And the reasoning that marriage should be a state issue completely has the potential to actually affect more than just same sex marriage. There are still people who view interracial marriage as not being acceptable. There are also a lot of people who would say that interfaith marriages should not be legal.

    Also, as I have pointed out, some people have to move. How would you suggest handling servicemembers? How about those who would be vacationing with their spouses in other states? US citizens should have the right to move anywhere throughout the country and have their legal contracts recognized by all the other states within the US.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  9. #189
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    Re: Should we legalize sexual freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    People who want society to reflect their personal moral beliefs are not only annoying, but they are one of the biggest threats to liberty.
    Kind of like wanting society to fit to your belief that it shouldn't reflect an individuals personal moral beliefs?

  10. #190
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    Re: Should we legalize sexual freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Things like murder, rape, theft, (sometimes) drug laws and so on are outlawed because of the threat they pose to our safety not because of the personal beliefs we have about them.
    So your personal belief is that its Right for the government to pass laws that have a moral element but are aimed at making us physically "safe" but its Wrong to pass laws that have a moral element but aren't aimed at making us physically safe.

    Sure does sound like you're trying to suggest your personal views and beliefs of what's right and wrong regarding the correct way the government should be enacting and upholding laws.

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