View Poll Results: Is alcohol abuse a disability; do you agree or disagree with the EEOC?

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  • I agree alcohol abuse is a disability, I agree with the EEOC position

    4 9.09%
  • I agree alcohol abuse is a disability, I disagree with the EEOC position

    3 6.82%
  • I disagree that alcohol abuse is a disability, I agree with the EEOC position

    2 4.55%
  • I disagree that alcohol abuse is a disability, I disagree with the EEOC position

    25 56.82%
  • Rutabega

    3 6.82%
  • Other (Explain please)

    7 15.91%
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Thread: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

  1. #71
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    The pedophile argument is actually a poor one. Remember, we are talking about risk factors. The pedophile argument only works if the driver has alcohol sitting next to him. An important factor in staying in recovery is avoiding triggers. You don't put a pedophile with kids, nor do you put an alcoholic with alcohol.
    Who is doing the "putting?" In many cases the person doing the "putting" is the pedophile or alcoholic. In cases where there are supervisors, such as a job in a school, the pedophile can be put on as a night shift janitor. Great - no kids around, no triggers. What do you do with the truck driver, assign him a permanent babysitter who sits in the truck cab with him on all driving assignments to make sure that he doesn't a.) bring a flask with him to work, or b.) stop somewhere and pick up some booze. Truck drivers are out on their own. If they want access to a "trigger" there is no one stopping them.

    This is asking the company to put their neck into a noose and trusting the driver not to kick out the chair that's under them.

    I can even understand not allowing him to drive while he is receiving treatment, but if he completes successfully, there is no reason to prevent his return.
    I'm operating on the assumption that there is settled precedent out there in legal-land where some company has been sued for doing something just like what you suggest and if not the exact same situation then one close enough to the situation so that the precedent of "no good deed ever goes unpunished" is driven home loudly and clearly. There is a reason that the business community hates trial lawyers.



    May 11, 2011



    A Tatum resident has filed a lawsuit against a trucking company after an allegedly intoxicated truck driver collided into her parked vehicle.

    Lisa Licon filed suit against Karen Tusler Anderson and Fleet Global Services Inc. on April 28 in the Eastern District of Texas, Marshall Division.

    According to the lawsuit, Licon's disabled vehicle was parked off of the roadway on Interstate 20 near Longview on Dec. 30, 2010, when the incident occurred. Defendant Karen Anderson, who was allegedly intoxicated, failed to stay in a single lane and struck Licon's vehicle.

    Defendant Anderson is accused of negligence for failing to keep a proper lookout, failing to control her speed and failing to turn or take evasive action in an effort to avoid the collision.

    Anderson is also accused of negligence for driving the vehicle recklessly with willful or wanton disregard for the safety of others and for operating the vehicle while under the influence of alcohol.

    Defendant Fleet Global Services is accused of negligent entrustment and hiring of Anderson.

    The plaintiff is seeking damages for physical pain and mental anguish, physical impairment, disfigurement, medical expenses, lost earnings, loss of earning capacity, punitive damages, interest, court costs and attorney's fees.


    Who do you imagine has the deeper pockets here and if the plaintiff wins the case, who will foot the settlement, the drunk driver or the trucking company?

  2. #72
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Joseph Hazelwood had a drinking problem. He went to rehab for his alcoholism. Once out of rehab his employer granted him 90 days of leave to attend Alcoholics Anonymous.

    Sometime after he returned to his job he caused an accident. There were some lawsuits. He was fined $50,000 for his part in the accident. His employer was hit with $3,500,000,000 in damages.

    Exxon learned a lesson and so did every other employer.

  3. #73
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    Look ... while of course from what information is provided that company has a right to restrict a person if they are abusing ETOH while working.

    However, the most curious aspect is that Fox News chose to say it was the Obama administration suing. That is as factual as trying to imply ... it is the speaker of the house suing this company.

    Of course, Fox instead of opening a real discussion on how this ICD dx should be coded and considered for employers ... would instead present such ridiculous opening to their thinly veiled "story" on Obama!



    Too freakin' funny ... ! Lets see is it Boener's fault or Obama's ... hey Fox News ... you lost credibility in your first sentence. Of course ... what is lost on the viewer is that most people would agree that this company most likely has a valid case. They present a story most could agree with the premise and yet "present it" as Obama is suing the company.

    Surely FNN is not insulting the 6th grade education level they try to entice as being that stupid!
    Huh. Perhaps you missed this part of the article:

    Earlier this year, the EEOC issued sweeping new regulations offering guidance on how to define “disability” under the law.
    The EEOC website identifies who the EEOC is:

    Quote Originally Posted by www.eeoc.gov
    The U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) is a bipartisan Commission comprised of five presidentially appointed members, including the Chair, Vice Chair, and three Commissioners. The Chair is responsible for the administration and implementation of policy for and the financial management and organizational development of the Commission. The Vice Chair and the Commissioners participate equally in the development and approval of Commission policies, issue charges of discrimination where appropriate, and authorize the filing of suits. In addition to the Commissioners, the President appoints a General Counsel to support the Commission and provide direction, coordination, and supervision to the EEOC's litigation program.

    The Commission

    Jacqueline A. Berrien, Chair
    Stuart J. Ishimaru, Commissioner
    Constance S. Barker, Commissioner
    Chai Feldblum, Commissioner
    Victoria A. Lipnic, Commissioner

    The General Counsel

    P. David Lopez
    Barker left July 1, 2011. All the remaining appointees with the exception of Ishimaru are Obama appointees approved by Congress. The EEOC is part of the Office of the Inspector General, which is in turn part of the Office of Health and Human Services (HHS), which is technically part of the Obama Administration and promotes the policies of a President through those agencies. While you see it as an opportunity to criticize the article's source, you do not address the fundamental question I posed. Secondly, while it may be a biased statement to state the Obama Administration is suing the trucking company - it is in fact, a fact. Just not one you want to admit.

    The changes in the definition of "disability" is what's being discussed here and those changes occurred within the last year, during the Obama administration. That's another fact. So I think it worthy to discuss those changes and the redefinition of disability as it applies to the EEOC and the ADA language in the context of this trucking company.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  4. #74
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Alcohol abuse is not a disability and should not be treated as such. A private company can do what they want.
    To make such a statement....as if this was a fact....
    Its an opinion, Dig...
    A private company can do whatever....another opinion.
    We have had our fill of private companies doing as they please.
    Do banks come to mind ?

  5. #75
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Who is doing the "putting?" In many cases the person doing the "putting" is the pedophile or alcoholic. In cases where there are supervisors, such as a job in a school, the pedophile can be put on as a night shift janitor. Great - no kids around, no triggers. What do you do with the truck driver, assign him a permanent babysitter who sits in the truck cab with him on all driving assignments to make sure that he doesn't a.) bring a flask with him to work, or b.) stop somewhere and pick up some booze. Truck drivers are out on their own. If they want access to a "trigger" there is no one stopping them.
    Once an alcoholic, always.
    Once "anger management", the same.
    Ask how I know this.
    Place people where they can do the least damage.

    This is asking the company to put their neck into a noose and trusting the driver not to kick out the chair that's under them.



    I'm operating on the assumption that there is settled precedent out there in legal-land where some company has been sued for doing something just like what you suggest and if not the exact same situation then one close enough to the situation so that the precedent of "no good deed ever goes unpunished" is driven home loudly and clearly. There is a reason that the business community hates trial lawyers.



    May 11, 2011



    A Tatum resident has filed a lawsuit against a trucking company after an allegedly intoxicated truck driver collided into her parked vehicle.

    Lisa Licon filed suit against Karen Tusler Anderson and Fleet Global Services Inc. on April 28 in the Eastern District of Texas, Marshall Division.

    According to the lawsuit, Licon's disabled vehicle was parked off of the roadway on Interstate 20 near Longview on Dec. 30, 2010, when the incident occurred. Defendant Karen Anderson, who was allegedly intoxicated, failed to stay in a single lane and struck Licon's vehicle.

    Defendant Anderson is accused of negligence for failing to keep a proper lookout, failing to control her speed and failing to turn or take evasive action in an effort to avoid the collision.

    Anderson is also accused of negligence for driving the vehicle recklessly with willful or wanton disregard for the safety of others and for operating the vehicle while under the influence of alcohol.

    Defendant Fleet Global Services is accused of negligent entrustment and hiring of Anderson.

    The plaintiff is seeking damages for physical pain and mental anguish, physical impairment, disfigurement, medical expenses, lost earnings, loss of earning capacity, punitive damages, interest, court costs and attorney's fees.


    Who do you imagine has the deeper pockets here and if the plaintiff wins the case, who will foot the settlement, the drunk driver or the trucking company?
    Once an alcoholic, always......
    The same with anger management.
    Ask how I know....

  6. #76
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Joseph Hazelwood had a drinking problem. He went to rehab for his alcoholism. Once out of rehab his employer granted him 90 days of leave to attend Alcoholics Anonymous.

    Sometime after he returned to his job he caused an accident. There were some lawsuits. He was fined $50,000 for his part in the accident. His employer was hit with $3,500,000,000 in damages.

    Exxon learned a lesson and so did every other employer.
    Absolutely. If this company has a driver while drunk cause an accident it's going to be bad. If someone they know is an alcoholic gets drunk and causes an accident every lawyer from miles around will pile on.

    Unless the EEOC wants to grant this company immunity from such actions, they need to drop this position.

  7. #77
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Absolutely. If this company has a driver while drunk cause an accident it's going to be bad. If someone they know is an alcoholic gets drunk and causes an accident every lawyer from miles around will pile on.

    Unless the EEOC wants to grant this company immunity from such actions, they need to drop this position.
    You are absolutley correct...which makes me believe there has to be more to this for the govt to be suing...I dont believe once a commerical driver is a caught drunk and admits to being an alcoholic that any Commericial insurer will INSURE them to go back on the road...

  8. #78
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    You are absolutley correct...which makes me believe there has to be more to this for the govt to be suing...I dont believe once a commerical driver is a caught drunk and admits to being an alcoholic that any Commericial insurer will INSURE them to go back on the road...
    That's very true. At a company I used to work for, drivers had to sign a contract before being hired that said that if they got more than one speeding ticket in a year or if they ever got a drunk driving conviction, they would be summarily terminated. Their insurance company would not insure drivers that had bad driving records, regardless. There were several drivers who were out of a job because of it.
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  9. #79
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    This company policy is actually quite dangerous. Since the issue isn't that the self-reporting drunk won't be allowed to drive, but that they'll be demoted and handed a lower-paying position in exchange for their honesty and their struggle against their addiction, this creates incentive for alcoholics to stay in the closet -- which keeps them on the road, and endangers the rest of us.

    Just some food for thought.
    True, but by the point an addict seeks treatment, they have usually realized how much their addiction is costing them. That's why they're seeking treatment!

    Given their recognition of the harm their condition has done, I think that most would realize that the benefits of sobriety are worth the costs of demotion, whereas a complete loss of their job might be too much.
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  10. #80
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    You are absolutley correct...which makes me believe there has to be more to this for the govt to be suing...I dont believe once a commerical driver is a caught drunk and admits to being an alcoholic that any Commericial insurer will INSURE them to go back on the road...
    1) It's the EEOC that is suing and that's because, under the law, it's the EEOC that gets first crack at the case. As a result, most disability cases under the ADA are filed by the EEOC.

    2) The company can re-assign people with a disability to another job. It's called a "reasonable accomodation". In this case, the employer can re-assign the alcoholic to a non-driving job.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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