View Poll Results: Is alcohol abuse a disability; do you agree or disagree with the EEOC?

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  • I agree alcohol abuse is a disability, I agree with the EEOC position

    4 9.09%
  • I agree alcohol abuse is a disability, I disagree with the EEOC position

    3 6.82%
  • I disagree that alcohol abuse is a disability, I agree with the EEOC position

    2 4.55%
  • I disagree that alcohol abuse is a disability, I disagree with the EEOC position

    25 56.82%
  • Rutabega

    3 6.82%
  • Other (Explain please)

    7 15.91%
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Thread: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

  1. #281
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    I have not responded to the question, "is alcoholism a disability". Probably because it depends. Alcoholism is a disability IF it's affects impact an individual from working. Now, I do NOT mean one's drinking, but I mean their alcoholism... and, btw, I do agree with the disease model of addiction. When it comes to addiction, I see using it as a disability as a very narrow scope. For example, an individual works at a liquor company, bottling liquor. If he drinks on the job and creates problems because of his drinking, while NOT receiving treatment, he should be fired. If he gets treatment and cannot continue to work at that liquor company because of the threat of relapse (threat towards his health), he is disabled from that position and would be found to receive disability benefits until he can secure another job where relapse is not as much of an issue. I have seen people receive disability benefits for addiction practically NEVER. The addiction itself is a pretty serious disorder that requires treatment and does not earn scorn. It is the behavior that is the issue. Every addict has a choice: receive treatment for their addiction or not. Those that do have my sympathy/empathy. Those that do not, do not.

    Oh, and to address something that was just discussed, an anxiety disorder... a severe one is certainly a disability. My brother has been receiving SSD benefits for his anxiety related disability for several years. He cannot function as other people can.
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  2. #282
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    You can keep making irrelevant comparisons, but I will not engage in your logical fallacies. There is nothing similar about these two situations that you can use. Keep trying, though. It is amusing watching you swing in the wind.
    actually, yes there is. you alls little diversion of the fact is what's amusing, really.
    Last edited by lewstherin; 09-10-11 at 03:20 AM.
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  3. #283
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Quote Originally Posted by lewstherin View Post
    actually, yes there is. you alls little diversion of the fact is what's amusing, really.
    No, it doesn't in the least. The only ones diverting are the three of you, trying to create non-comparable scenarios in a desperate attempt to prove your position… which you have been unable to do. I wouldn't call it amusing. I'd call what you all are doing weak.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  4. #284
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I have not responded to the question, "is alcoholism a disability". Probably because it depends. Alcoholism is a disability IF it's affects impact an individual from working. Now, I do NOT mean one's drinking, but I mean their alcoholism... and, btw, I do agree with the disease model of addiction. When it comes to addiction, I see using it as a disability as a very narrow scope. For example, an individual works at a liquor company, bottling liquor. If he drinks on the job and creates problems because of his drinking, while NOT receiving treatment, he should be fired. If he gets treatment and cannot continue to work at that liquor company because of the threat of relapse (threat towards his health), he is disabled from that position and would be found to receive disability benefits until he can secure another job where relapse is not as much of an issue. I have seen people receive disability benefits for addiction practically NEVER. The addiction itself is a pretty serious disorder that requires treatment and does not earn scorn. It is the behavior that is the issue. Every addict has a choice: receive treatment for their addiction or not. Those that do have my sympathy/empathy. Those that do not, do not.

    Oh, and to address something that was just discussed, an anxiety disorder... a severe one is certainly a disability. My brother has been receiving SSD benefits for his anxiety related disability for several years. He cannot function as other people can.
    I have panic attacks, and along with that-severe depression. Sometimes i go along fine for months. Then it's hell.
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  5. #285
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I have not responded to the question, "is alcoholism a disability". Probably because it depends. Alcoholism is a disability IF it's affects impact an individual from working. Now, I do NOT mean one's drinking, but I mean their alcoholism... and, btw, I do agree with the disease model of addiction. When it comes to addiction, I see using it as a disability as a very narrow scope. For example, an individual works at a liquor company, bottling liquor. If he drinks on the job and creates problems because of his drinking, while NOT receiving treatment, he should be fired. If he gets treatment and cannot continue to work at that liquor company because of the threat of relapse (threat towards his health), he is disabled from that position and would be found to receive disability benefits until he can secure another job where relapse is not as much of an issue. I have seen people receive disability benefits for addiction practically NEVER. The addiction itself is a pretty serious disorder that requires treatment and does not earn scorn. It is the behavior that is the issue. Every addict has a choice: receive treatment for their addiction or not. Those that do have my sympathy/empathy. Those that do not, do not.

    Oh, and to address something that was just discussed, an anxiety disorder... a severe one is certainly a disability. My brother has been receiving SSD benefits for his anxiety related disability for several years. He cannot function as other people can.
    What other "disease" has a more negative impact on the people around them than it does the person who actually has it? I was just about to post that I can probably concede that alcohol abuse could be a disability, same way as if I cut off my own arm, I would then be disabled. Alcohol can also be an addiction, of course, but I don't believe addiction is a "disease". A person with a disease is a victim of that disease and nobody rational would blame a person who is the victim for their illness. This is why I balk at labeling every compulsive behavior a disease. It's just a way to garner sympathy and avoid responsibility for changing destructive behavior.
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  6. #286
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Tough issue. But, I do wonder about how we prioritize who's supposed to be taken care of and who's obligated to do the taking care. Why does the company have a responsibility for taking care of the alcoholic? Did it cause his alcoholism? It's one thing if a person was injured on the job, but if they're injured off the clock, what makes the place of employment have any liability? If I paralyze myself from the neck down while snow boarding, should my construction company have to support me? Maybe they should have to insure their employees - or maybe the employee should have to have insurance to work for the employer.

    If I am one of three employees working for a sole proprietor, and my alcoholism makes me unable to do my job, but paying for my problems puts my boss out of business is that right? What if I have 2 siblings and one living parent? Would they have equal responsibility, or is it just the employer? What about 3 strangers who live in my neighborhood, would they have legal responsibility (ie government support)? We have a lot of sick and needy - where does the alcoholic rank next to the war veteran or the downs child? What if I can't stop lying or stealing? Who should support me? What if I can't be relied upon? Is that enough of a compulsive behavior?

    I am NOT minimizing the hurt, sorrow, and difficulty of alcoholism. I'm just wondering when my misfortune automatically becomes a burden to others, how much misfortune is enough to qualify, and how much can I contribute to my own misfortune and still have it count as misfortune.
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  7. #287
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenvilleGrows View Post
    Tough issue. But, I do wonder about how we prioritize who's supposed to be taken care of and who's obligated to do the taking care. Why does the company have a responsibility for taking care of the alcoholic? Did it cause his alcoholism? It's one thing if a person was injured on the job, but if they're injured off the clock, what makes the place of employment have any liability? If I paralyze myself from the neck down while snow boarding, should my construction company have to support me? Maybe they should have to insure their employees - or maybe the employee should have to have insurance to work for the employer.
    In the same vein, why would it be the company's place to consequence an individual for something he does off the clock, but does not do on the clock... nor has it affected his job performance.

    If I am one of three employees working for a sole proprietor, and my alcoholism makes me unable to do my job, but paying for my problems puts my boss out of business is that right? What if I have 2 siblings and one living parent? Would they have equal responsibility, or is it just the employer? What about 3 strangers who live in my neighborhood, would they have legal responsibility (ie government support)? We have a lot of sick and needy - where does the alcoholic rank next to the war veteran or the downs child? What if I can't stop lying or stealing? Who should support me? What if I can't be relied upon? Is that enough of a compulsive behavior?
    I don't see anything here that is consistent with what we are discussing. Here would be something analogous to what we are discussing. If you are an alcoholic, should your two siblings and one remaining parent throw you out of the family?

    I am NOT minimizing the hurt, sorrow, and difficulty of alcoholism. I'm just wondering when my misfortune automatically becomes a burden to others, how much misfortune is enough to qualify, and how much can I contribute to my own misfortune and still have it count as misfortune.
    As always, it depends.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  8. #288
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    What other "disease" has a more negative impact on the people around them than it does the person who actually has it? I was just about to post that I can probably concede that alcohol abuse could be a disability, same way as if I cut off my own arm, I would then be disabled. Alcohol can also be an addiction, of course, but I don't believe addiction is a "disease". A person with a disease is a victim of that disease and nobody rational would blame a person who is the victim for their illness. This is why I balk at labeling every compulsive behavior a disease. It's just a way to garner sympathy and avoid responsibility for changing destructive behavior.
    An alcoholic is a victim of their disease. They cannot drink like those who are not addicted. The part of this that is their responsibility is do they seek treatment and do things to prevent themselves from acting on behaviors or not.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  9. #289
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    An alcoholic is a victim of their disease. They cannot drink like those who are not addicted. The part of this that is their responsibility is do they seek treatment and do things to prevent themselves from acting on behaviors or not.
    That's the thing though, most other diseases require extraordinary measures to battle their symptoms as well as the disease itself. People suffering those actual diseases have to make the decision to go through treatment or not. In the case of alcoholism, the "victim" actually has to choose to engage in the destructive behavior that makes them so called victims in the first place. Not only that, but an alcoholic's disease makes victims of other people who don't even have it.

  10. #290
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    That's the thing though, most other diseases require extraordinary measures to battle their symptoms as well as the disease itself. People suffering those actual diseases have to make the decision to go through treatment or not. In the case of alcoholism, the "victim" actually has to choose to engage in the destructive behavior that makes them so called victims in the first place. Not only that, but an alcoholic's disease makes victims of other people who don't even have it.
    With the exception of the first two sentences, you are correct. Addiction does require extraordinary measures to battle symptoms and the disease itself. Having treated hundreds with addiction, I can tell you that is accurate. Also, those with addiction have to make the same decision... go through treatment or not.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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