View Poll Results: Is alcohol abuse a disability; do you agree or disagree with the EEOC?

Voters
44. You may not vote on this poll
  • I agree alcohol abuse is a disability, I agree with the EEOC position

    4 9.09%
  • I agree alcohol abuse is a disability, I disagree with the EEOC position

    3 6.82%
  • I disagree that alcohol abuse is a disability, I agree with the EEOC position

    2 4.55%
  • I disagree that alcohol abuse is a disability, I disagree with the EEOC position

    25 56.82%
  • Rutabega

    3 6.82%
  • Other (Explain please)

    7 15.91%
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Thread: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

  1. #271
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Quote Originally Posted by lewstherin View Post
    for most people, the only polls that are "worthless" are the ones that disagree with their opinion on a matter.
    For most...sure.

  2. #272
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    So I guess this is two votes for allowing someone that admits they are attracted to little children run the day care.
    As I said, I already destroyed and dismissed that argument. It is non-comparable and your attempts to make it so are ridiculous. And, your "guess" above is just as stupid as the pedophile argument you presented, and has never been claimed. Suggestion: try debating honestly.
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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  3. #273
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Priest admits fantasising about boys on Skype - General News - Croatian Times Online News - English Newspaper

    Would you allow him to run the church day care if he agreed to counseling?
    You can keep throwing out this ridiculous red herring of an argument, but since it is non-comparable to the situation we are discussing, it just makes you desperate, with a false appeal to emotion.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  4. #274
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    lol well I suggest that you read the thread, because I have made my points abundantly clear.
    Actually you haven't



    Just because disability has been redefined to protect people who have done harm to themselves doesn't mean they are actually disabled. And even if an alcoholic is really disabled, he or she still shouldn't be able to operate heavy machinery which would put the public in danger.
    Just because your position is nonsense, that doesn't mean that disability means what you want it to mean.
    Last edited by sangha; 09-09-11 at 09:57 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  5. #275
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    You can keep throwing out this ridiculous red herring of an argument, but since it is non-comparable to the situation we are discussing, it just makes you desperate, with a false appeal to emotion.
    Would it be logical for the church to allow him to run their day care? Even though you deflect and refuse to answer the question, you know it wouldn't be. It would actually be IMO criminal for them to hire him to do that.

    No, it would not be criminal for this company to allow this guy to drive but it would put them in more risk. That's not a call anyone but the owner should make.

  6. #276
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Would it be logical for the church to allow him to run their day care? Even though you deflect and refuse to answer the question, you know it wouldn't be. It would actually be IMO criminal for them to hire him to do that.

    No, it would not be criminal for this company to allow this guy to drive but it would put them in more risk. That's not a call anyone but the owner should make.
    Keep at it, you're in the right here and Captain Courtesy is simply using cheap debating tricks in order to avoid engaging in a full and honest debate on this issue.

    In philosophy/logic we use a number of methods to develop understanding of issues.

    One method is inductive reasoning. One creates similar situations which differ in detail but require a similar decision be made. One analyzes what motivates the decision being made in these dissimilar instances and generalizes towards a central principle.

    Another method is to hold a central principle and use deductive reasoning to apply it to different situations and see if the principle holds.

    These false cries of fallacy by appeal to emotion are no such thing. The charge can be negated by simply stating that the person is choosing to violate their general principle in the special case of a pedophile being placed in charge of children. For your position and mine, this admission is useful because we can now examine what criteria is necessary for a person to make an exception to their general rule and then we can see whether those conditions can be applied to drunk drivers of semi-trucks on public roads.

    So keep at it - you're doing good work in trying to get people to honestly engage in the issue while they rely on appeals to their own authority, make bombastic declarations about destroying arguments (when they haven't) and rely on tricks to narrowly limit discussion so that they can avoid developing deeper understanding of the broader principles at play in this issue.

  7. #277
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Actually you haven't
    Actually I have.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post

    Just because your position is nonsense, that doesn't mean that disability means what you want it to mean.
    Nonsense. If an alcoholic is disabled, I should also get a check for my anxiety disorder, and maybe I should also be a fighter pilot or a police officer. If they don't hire me, I'll sue and claim a disability. Because god forbid a company have any control over who they hire. The truck company is damned if they do, and damned if they don't. If they let the guy drive a rig and he kills someone, they get sued. If they refuse to let him drive a rig, they get sued. I am starting to understand why businesses are going overseas now. Who the hell can afford to operate in this ****ing country?

    As for alcoholics having a disease, this is nothing more than people refusing to take responsibility for their actions. Drinking one's self into oblivion is idiotic and self destructive. To coddle drug addicts and drunks is also idiotic and self destructive. What does it accomplish to let alcoholics claim a disability when people like that are almost always a useless drag on society? Now they can demand employment and possibly put innocent people at risk. Good job intrusive and ineffective government.

    I feel no desire to prop them up and tell them that it's not their fault that they're a drunk. I've dealt with low life drug addicts for several years now. None of them take responsibility for what they do or how they treat other people. And very few of them who do enter treatment stay in treatment.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

  8. #278
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Quote Originally Posted by evanescence View Post
    Actually I have.



    Nonsense. If an alcoholic is disabled, I should also get a check for my anxiety disorder, and maybe I should also be a fighter pilot or a police officer. If they don't hire me, I'll sue and claim a disability. Because god forbid a company have any control over who they hire. The truck company is damned if they do, and damned if they don't. If they let the guy drive a rig and he kills someone, they get sued. If they refuse to let him drive a rig, they get sued. I am starting to understand why businesses are going overseas now. Who the hell can afford to operate in this ****ing country?

    As for alcoholics having a disease, this is nothing more than people refusing to take responsibility for their actions. Drinking one's self into oblivion is idiotic and self destructive. To coddle drug addicts and drunks is also idiotic and self destructive. What does it accomplish to let alcoholics claim a disability when people like that are almost always a useless drag on society? Now they can demand employment and possibly put innocent people at risk. Good job intrusive and ineffective government.

    I feel no desire to prop them up and tell them that it's not their fault that they're a drunk. I've dealt with low life drug addicts for several years now. None of them take responsibility for what they do or how they treat other people. And very few of them who do enter treatment stay in treatment.
    Depending on the severity of your anxiety disorder, it may be a disability. Maybe you should look into that. Or maybe not.

    And if you want to be a police officer or a fire fighter, and you're qualified, then apply for the job. No one is stopping you.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  9. #279
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Would it be logical for the church to allow him to run their day care? Even though you deflect and refuse to answer the question, you know it wouldn't be. It would actually be IMO criminal for them to hire him to do that.

    No, it would not be criminal for this company to allow this guy to drive but it would put them in more risk. That's not a call anyone but the owner should make.
    You can keep making irrelevant comparisons, but I will not engage in your logical fallacies. There is nothing similar about these two situations that you can use. Keep trying, though. It is amusing watching you swing in the wind.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  10. #280
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Keep at it, you're in the right here and Captain Courtesy is simply using cheap debating tricks in order to avoid engaging in a full and honest debate on this issue.

    In philosophy/logic we use a number of methods to develop understanding of issues.

    One method is inductive reasoning. One creates similar situations which differ in detail but require a similar decision be made. One analyzes what motivates the decision being made in these dissimilar instances and generalizes towards a central principle.

    Another method is to hold a central principle and use deductive reasoning to apply it to different situations and see if the principle holds.

    These false cries of fallacy by appeal to emotion are no such thing. The charge can be negated by simply stating that the person is choosing to violate their general principle in the special case of a pedophile being placed in charge of children. For your position and mine, this admission is useful because we can now examine what criteria is necessary for a person to make an exception to their general rule and then we can see whether those conditions can be applied to drunk drivers of semi-trucks on public roads.

    So keep at it - you're doing good work in trying to get people to honestly engage in the issue while they rely on appeals to their own authority, make bombastic declarations about destroying arguments (when they haven't) and rely on tricks to narrowly limit discussion so that they can avoid developing deeper understanding of the broader principles at play in this issue.
    Nah, I already destroyed your lack of logic when you presented this scenario. If you want to discuss a similar situation, be my guest, but thus far, everything you have presented has not been comparable. It's why you have failed so hard in this thread. Now, you can keep cheerleading 1Perry, but he is just following your coattails of failure.

    Let me know when you come up with a comparison that makes sense so we can discuss it. Until then, I will not engage in your or his stupid appeals to emotion. It's incredibly weak debating. I'll be happy to keep pointing it out, though.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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