View Poll Results: Is alcohol abuse a disability; do you agree or disagree with the EEOC?

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  • I agree alcohol abuse is a disability, I agree with the EEOC position

    4 9.09%
  • I agree alcohol abuse is a disability, I disagree with the EEOC position

    3 6.82%
  • I disagree that alcohol abuse is a disability, I agree with the EEOC position

    2 4.55%
  • I disagree that alcohol abuse is a disability, I disagree with the EEOC position

    25 56.82%
  • Rutabega

    3 6.82%
  • Other (Explain please)

    7 15.91%
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Thread: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

  1. #131
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Time between when you find out and when they seek treatment? I'm not sure what you mean. You find out and tell them that they have to get treatment or you will fire them. They do one or the other immediately. If they say they'll seek treatment, but don't, you fire them.
    Treatment is not an immediate thing, it's not like buying a cream at the pharmacy. It takes time, often years to be successful. So I ask again, what do you do between the time they SEEK treatment and the time they are "CURED"?
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  2. #132
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Treatment is not an immediate thing, it's not like buying a cream at the pharmacy. It takes time, often years to be successful. So I ask again, what do you do between the time they SEEK treatment and the time they are "CURED"?
    My understanding is that if they keep drinking after the company calls them out on it, they can fire them at any time. I mean, presumably you can't like call them out at 10 am and at 10:01 freak out that they haven't started treatment yet or anything idiotic, but yeah, they need to stop drinking and seek treatment immediately and never relapse to keep their jobs.

  3. #133
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    My understanding is that if they keep drinking after the company calls them out on it, they can fire them at any time. I mean, presumably you can't like call them out at 10 am and at 10:01 freak out that they haven't started treatment yet or anything idiotic, but yeah, they need to stop drinking and seek treatment immediately and never relapse to keep their jobs.
    But none of that seems to relate to because you are 'being an alcoholic' - but more so 'drinking while on duty' or 'letting it interfere with sleep at night so for work the next day you're hung over' and so on -these times are when it becomes a problem to the point where an employer can make some decisions. . . and these can also be issues with non-alcoholics who just love to lush it up sometimes and let things get out of hand without any type of reliance or addiction to it.

    I also think everyone's defaulting to the belief that alcoholics are always under the influence - when they're not. Some are binge drinkers or sporatic - where the drinking is designated for the weekend or anytime they have a day off - others are purely seasonal . . . and so on. Some are open about it while others are secret.
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  4. #134
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    My understanding is that if they keep drinking after the company calls them out on it, they can fire them at any time. I mean, presumably you can't like call them out at 10 am and at 10:01 freak out that they haven't started treatment yet or anything idiotic, but yeah, they need to stop drinking and seek treatment immediately and never relapse to keep their jobs.
    Why don't people like you, you know, the people who get off on forcing other people to comply with your ideology, get together and donate your own money to an indemnity fund which will accept all responsibility for an accident that an alcoholic truck driver causes after relapsing from his period of abstinence. You blowharding about "doing the right thing" is easy to do when you don't have to shoulder any of the risk.

  5. #135
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Why don't people like you, you know, the people who get off on forcing other people to comply with your ideology, get together and donate your own money to an indemnity fund which will accept all responsibility for an accident that an alcoholic truck driver causes after relapsing from his period of abstinence. You blowharding about "doing the right thing" is easy to do when you don't have to shoulder any of the risk.
    You mean auto-insurance and the court system?

    You're still defaulting to this belief that someone who is an alcoholic is *drunk* right now - or that their behavior, ability to think, react in a dangerous driving situation - and so on - is effected *without* having alcohol in their system.

    A non-alcoholic is just as much of a danger as an alcoholic with liquor in their system. It's the presence of the alcohol (and other substances, don't even need to just talk about alcoholism, here) that causes the problem. Not the mental desire to drink.

    **** - I want a drink right freaking now. But I'm not DRUNK so I can drive to the store with my kids in the car without a worry or without stirring concern. Being so butt faced plastered daily 5 years ago does not affect how I can function at this moment.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 09-04-11 at 07:15 PM.
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  6. #136
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Why don't people like you, you know, the people who get off on forcing other people to comply with your ideology, get together and donate your own money to an indemnity fund which will accept all responsibility for an accident that an alcoholic truck driver causes after relapsing from his period of abstinence. You blowharding about "doing the right thing" is easy to do when you don't have to shoulder any of the risk.
    What is the problem with setting minimum standards for the socially responsible behavior of corporations? Corporations are supposed to be tools people use to better the world for people, not the other way around...

  7. #137
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    You mean auto-insurance and the court system?

    You're still defaulting to this belief that someone who is an alcoholic is *drunk* right now - or that their behavior, ability to think, react in a dangerous driving situation - and so on - is effected *without* having alcohol in their system.

    A non-alcoholic is just as much of a danger as an alcoholic with liquor in their system. It's the presence of the alcohol (and other substances, don't even need to just talk about alcoholism, here) that causes the problem. Not the mental desire to drink.

    **** - I want a drink right freaking now. But I'm not DRUNK so I can drive to the store with my kids in the car without a worry or without stirring concern. Being so butt faced plastered daily 5 years ago does not affect how I can function at this moment.
    We covered this without anyone rebutting the point. No, a sober driver is a sober driver. An alcoholic behind the wheel is always more of a risk for a company than someone who is not.

    If a driver has an accident and is drunk, it's going to be bad for the company. If someone the company knows is an alcoholic gets drunk and has an accident it's going to be far worse for the company.

  8. #138
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Keep them in a job they might not be qualified for? What do you mean? They can fire them for not being qualified just like usual, they just can't fire them for drinking if they get treatment and manage to kick it.
    I keep hearing that people want a driver with an alcohol issue given a different job in the company he works for because his alcoholism is a disability. Who's to say that there is another job in the company that he IS qualified for?

    For example.... The vast majority of the senior linemen that work for the company I do would NOT be qualified for even the entry-level position in my department. They do not have the technical, computer, or inter-personal skills to work in the office environment. It would seem that you folks are suggesting that if these guys fail an alcohol test (which they are given randomly), that the company should MAKE a job for them, because there isn't one that doesn't require driving that they'd qualify for.

  9. #139
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    You mean auto-insurance and the court system?

    You're still defaulting to this belief that someone who is an alcoholic is *drunk* right now - or that their behavior, ability to think, react in a dangerous driving situation - and so on - is effected *without* having alcohol in their system.

    No, I'm not doing that. Have you read this entire thread? Did you see the two comments I made which showed how companies are sued for the accidents caused by their employees and the specific charge is that the companies were reckless for entrusting the employee with the job and FOR HIRING THE EMPLOYEE.

    If this truck driver ever causes an accident and alcohol is related to the accident, then this company is on the hook big time. Why? They do a good deed and they get shafted by the courts. Go back and read those two comments I offered.

  10. #140
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    Re: Is alcohol abuse a "disability"?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    To argue that government agencies don't change their tactics because on the administration in power is a fallacious arguement. Of course they do. I've not searched to see if the current administration has had any input here but administrations certainly do have an impact of what will be addressed and how it will be.

    Nobody would argue that INS doesn't act differently under Obama than they would under say, Ron Paul.
    Okay, so on the topic of 'tactics' changing because of the administration in power & since you mention Ron Paul: where were the Libertarians/TP when Bush was spending more on Social programs then any other GOP president? Why were they silent when the 'Bush' Government 'forced' them to help others by dumping LOADS of money into welfare programs? Even if the answer is that Obama "changed the tactics" and is spending "more" than Bush...no one said a single thing about Bush's spending being unconstitutional. No one says the Government is wrong in 'forcing' citizens to fund the military industrial complex, etc.

    I'd not have the opinion of the GOP/TP/Libertarians that I do, when it comes to helping others, if they had shown the same discord for Bush when he threw money around and expected everyone to fund social programs and two wars. If they could show even an ounce of consistency in what they stand for, people might believe the Patriotism.

    So yes, agencies change with the Admin, sure, but the Constitution stays the same. If something is unconstitutional now, it was unconstitutional under Bush.

    Obviously People change because of the Administration in Power as well.

    I agree there are flaws with our Government. But I think it would be better if we found a way, as united people, to reform our Federal Government rather than dissemble it. People dont trust that States can handle things on their own. And no one seems to know what a "private organization" is past being a "private organization"... so it's not even an option.
    IMO, "The People" would pick a Progressive candidate over a Libertarian one. Libertarians seem too left and their answers are rather vague..
    Last edited by Flippinfunky; 09-04-11 at 07:51 PM.
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