Should radar detectors be legal (as in the USA) or illegal (as in Canada)?

Illegal. Any item or service whose sole intent is to help individuals break the law should be removed from society.

Paschendale said:

It boggles my mind how this doesn't violate a person's right to confront their accuser. How do you impeach the credibility of something so far removed from a person? I've gotten hit by traffic cameras before. By the time I got the ticket in the mail, a month had passed. I had absolutely no idea if I had been speeding or not. I had no practical and honest means to contest the charge against me. I had no idea if the camera was accurate, nor even if the picture was real. When you're pulled over by a cop, at least there's a person there accusing you of a crime. And when you get to court, the cop is there to testify. The only way to cross-examine an unmanned camera is for the people who built and maintain it would have to be there when you went to court. Has that ever happened?

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In the greater Chicago metro area (four counties), traffic light enforcement camera's are literally everywhere. In addition, woe unto you if the overhead Tollway reader doesn't pick up your windshield mounted electronic I-Pass unit. In both cases, you get a ticket print-out in the mail which also has a pic of your plate/tag. About the only way you can prevail in traffic court is if the print-out information/pic belongs to a different vehicle.

You are presumed guilty unless you can produce the documentation that proves otherwise :shock:

Lord Tammerlain said:

With Lidar the chances of detecting it before it has caught you is small, but in the case of radar, provided it is not instant on, and being used on a low traffic area, the ability of the detector to catch the X or K band radar is very good before it gets you

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With both the chances of detecting it before it detects you is.... VERY VERY minimal. With LIDAR, its near impossible to detect it at all.
With LIDAR.. the beam shot from the device if VERY small. That VERY small beam needs to hit DIRECTLY on the detector in order to pick it up and alert you. In Police LIDAR training, one is taught to aim the beam at the headlights/front grill of a vehicle, as the metalic surfaces there are more reflective and provide a stronger signal. Thus, unless you are putting a Laser detector on your headlight or front of the vehicle, the chance you will be alerted to the LIDAR tracking with the ability to slow down is near impossible.

With RADAR, your chances of not getting caught speeding are also very minimal, unless you are traveling in heavy traffic, in which case the officers won't be able to single you out very well anyways (unless of course, you are speeding in and out of lanes traveling at a rate of speed much faster than the other vehicles, then you are driving aggressive anyways and can be stopped WITHOUT a speed measurement).

You see, the average person's reaction speed is greater than the speed of light. Which is the speed that a radar beam travels and reports its data. So even if you detected a police RADAR signal, changes are great that the only thing you are going to do is let the officer know that you detected him, even though he already has your 65 in a 45 locked and is ready to stop you.

jamesrage said:

They should be perfectly legal.If LEOs can use radar guns, phone taps and what ever else then the rest of the population should be allowed to use what ever counter and detection measures they wish.

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Wow..

So then you advocate that if the police can use force to make an arrest if needed, then the people can use force to avoid being arrested?

Big slippery slope argument you just made.

Speeding is not a right. Hell, driving is not a right. Being forced to drive at a safe speed does not violate anyone's rights. The only negative is that it takes a little longer to get to one's destination.

What's next, an app that shows where we can safely buy ecstasy and heroin? Come on. Ban all radar and laser detectors whose sole purpose is to make it easier to speed.

earthworm said:

If the primary concern of law enforcement is "public safety", and not revenue generation, then radar detectors should be illegal.

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You have that ass backwards.
Radar detectors being illegal would benefit revenue generation, as that is one less ticket that is being written.
Radar detectors being LEGAL would benefit public safety. Because now an officer can increase the safety of traffic by just flipping a switch and watching all the cars slow down.

Caine said:

You have that ass backwards.
Radar detectors being illegal would benefit revenue generation, as that is one less ticket that is being written.
Radar detectors being LEGAL would benefit public safety. Because now an officer can increase the safety of traffic by just flipping a switch and watching all the cars slow down.

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Doesn't a healthy fear of authority create the exact same effect?

Phys251 said:

Doesn't a healthy fear of authority create the exact same effect?

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Yes it does.
Personally I believe writing tickets is the only thing that guarantees traffic safety laws will be followed.

Officers can stop cars for traffic violations and risk injury to themselves from the fact that a traffic stop is an unknown risk just to give out verbal warnings all day long. And at the end of a month, people are just going to be like, "He isn't giving out tickets so who cares"

If you give too many warnings..... it builds up a belief in the public that nothing of substance is going to be done to them for violating the law.

Caine said:

Yes it does.
Personally I believe writing tickets is the only thing that guarantees traffic safety laws will be followed.

Officers can stop cars for traffic violations and risk injury to themselves from the fact that a traffic stop is an unknown risk just to give out verbal warnings all day long. And at the end of a month, people are just going to be like, "He isn't giving out tickets so who cares"

If you give too many warnings..... it builds up a belief in the public that nothing of substance is going to be done to them for violating the law.

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Exactly. How many of us know a particular town or stretch of road that is tightly regulated for speed, and we watch our speedometers very closely on that stretch of road? It's not necessarily because we got a ticket there; it's because we sense a real risk of getting that ticket.

That said, this does raise the question of excessive road rules or supposedly unfair speed limits, which, I think, need to be looked into on a case-by-case basis.

Phys251 said:

Exactly. How many of us know a particular town or stretch of road that is tightly regulated for speed, and we watch our speedometers very closely on that stretch of road? It's not necessarily because we got a ticket there; it's because we sense a real risk of getting that ticket.

That said, this does raise the question of excessive road rules or supposedly unfair speed limits, which, I think, need to be looked into on a case-by-case basis.

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This is true.
Knee Jerk Reactions to a tragic incident are the #1 cause of lower than necessary speed limits within towns and cities.
There are several roads in my area that are two and three lanes wide in each direction but only 35 mph that I don't even bother enforcing speed on because its absolutely unfair.

Canadians can drive?

WOW!!! - That is news too me.

Caine said:

This is true.
Knee Jerk Reactions to a tragic incident are the #1 cause of lower than necessary speed limits within towns and cities.
There are several roads in my area that are two and three lanes wide in each direction but only 35 mph that I don't even bother enforcing speed on because its absolutely unfair.

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There was a big wide road like that with a 35mph limit back in my hometown. I don't think I ever saw anyone go below 45 on it. It probably got that way in the manner you suggest. Emotional overreaction causes us to make bad decisions.

Caine said:

This is true.
Knee Jerk Reactions to a tragic incident are the #1 cause of lower than necessary speed limits within towns and cities.
There are several roads in my area that are two and three lanes wide in each direction but only 35 mph that I don't even bother enforcing speed on because its absolutely unfair.

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Whoa, you're a police officer? Thank you for your service, sir.

Paschendale said:

There was a big wide road like that with a 35mph limit back in my hometown. I don't think I ever saw anyone go below 45 on it. It probably got that way in the manner you suggest. Emotional overreaction causes us to make bad decisions.

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Yeah, this was was reduced when a high school cross country kid was running along the road and went to cross the street without looking and got hit.
Even at the current 35 the person who hit him wouldn't have been able to stop.

Luna Tick said:

Should radar detectors be legal (as in the USA) or illegal (as in Canada)?

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They should be legal.
Not all posted speed limits are for safety reasons and I should be able to travel at a speed that is comfortable to me, while being safe.
That's regardless of the posted limit.

Manc Skipper said:

Personally I reckon the radar detectors are a waste of money, since if you can detect the radar, it's detected you, and you don't have time to slow down.

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Not so. The radar pulse can be picked up siginifantly further away than the range at which the radar can get a relaible reading.

They should be legal. Speeding should remain illegal.

PzKfW IVe said:

Not so. The radar pulse can be picked up siginifantly further away than the range at which the radar can get a relaible reading.

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And this is why the radar isn't activated unless you are clocking a particular vehicle.

But, don't go by what I say because North Carolina has the strictest and most complete Radar Operator training and operating standards in the Nation.

So alot of Officers in states that have a piddly 3 hour training class won't/don't/ and aren't expected to operate in the same manner.

Caine said:

And this is why the radar isn't activated unless you are clocking a particular vehicle.

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OMG! Really! I never knew!!!

:roll:

The radar exposes itself whenever it is on; so long as you aren't the only car on the road, there's a good chance the cars in front of you will draw out the radar and let your detector see it. You have to know how to use your detector, see...

PzKfW IVe said:

OMG! Really! I never knew!!!

:roll:

The radar exposes itself whenever it is on; so long as you aren't the only car on the road, there's a good chance the cars in front of you will draw out the radar and let your detector see it. You have to know how to use your detector, see...

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The problem with that is the officer runs into a "bunching" problem. If there are TOO many cars, it becomes very difficult to get accurate readings. Usually, if there are too many cars, then they are all traveling at reduced speed anyways so that doesn't really become an issue.

LIDAR is used for this case because an Officer can pinpoint a specific vehicle instead of shooting out a wide range beam.

However, if there are a few cars, say 5, and one is obviously traveling faster than the others, when the radar displays the higher speed, the officer can use the higher speed to stop the vehicle that is visually going faster.

In NC, an officer is required to have a visual speed estimation of the vehicle that they stop using a radar reading.
And that is what the majority of our 40 hour class consists of, learning to estimate speed visually, and visual estimation testing is a key part of the certification process.
It is also a key part of the 3 year re-certification process.