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GOP's Gun Raffle In Giffords' District Sparks Hot Debate

Is this raffle in extremely bad taste?

  • Yes, the republicans should be ashamed

    Votes: 14 35.0%

  • No, everyone should really just relax

    Votes: 21 52.5%

  • Other, I can't commit to yes or no

    Votes: 5 12.5%
  • Total voters
    40
Karl said:
You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but given that it is clearly of the fringe variety (given that "loony left" is a fringe term) I don't think it represents the mainstream. A political party raffling off a cheap handgun in a district where a U.S. Congresswoman (of the opposing party) was recently shot in the head by a cheap handgun is simply crass behavior. Indisputable. That such crass behavior is constitutionally protected makes it no less crass.

The Pavlovian reaction is that of those who react without independent analysis of a specific situation.... for example, a gun club/shooting range raffle of a Glock 23 in such a locale would not be an extraordinary event. Since the usual suspects can be relied upon to defend any type of arms transaction, even including the personal ownership of nuclear weapons (as we are nearly seeing in another thread), the true origin of the Pavlovian reactions are rather clear.
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cheap handgun? LOL you just stepped on it there.
 
TurtleDude said:
since you haven't been around much why don't you tell us regulars what exactly your views are on gun issues in the US of A
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Let's try again Karl

we learned you don't know much about handguns when you claim a glock is "cheap"

so how about some honest answers
 
Goshin said:
In most states you do not need a permit simply to own a gun. Whoever wins it will have to fill out the paperwork and have a NICS background check just as if he'd bought it in a gunstore. I know how these things work because I've been involved in gun raffles before.
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Thanks for the info. I was wondering if you would have to have a permit. I know a lot of times to win a car or even a motorcycle you have to have a license and sometimes even insurance. I know I wanted to enter a contest for a Harley and could not enter due to not having a motorcycle license.
 
Kali said:
Thanks for the info. I was wondering if you would have to have a permit. I know a lot of times to win a car or even a motorcycle you have to have a license and sometimes even insurance. I know I wanted to enter a contest for a Harley and could not enter due to not having a motorcycle license.
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Not to own it or possess it and certainly not to sell it if you were to win it
 
ecofarm said:
Oh yeah, and my pics (tavern members pics II). I'm superhot and my chick is mad gorgeous.
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That is not a chick. That is your QUEEN! Yeah she is lovely:)
 
apdst said:
The OP is all about anti-gun rights. Otherwise, there wouldn't be any concern over the issue.
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Let me clear something up since I started this thread. It has nothing to do with gun rights. It has to do with the bad decision to raffle a gun in that place at this time. I have no problem with responsible people having guns. I have no problem at all with hunters. I have no problem with people who target shoot. I have no problem with people who want a gun for self-defense. Do I think gun ownership lowers crime - no. If it did then Europe's crime rate would be higher than ours. So no, I am not interested in prying any gun from anyone's cold dead hands.
 
TurtleDude said:
since you haven't been around much why don't you tell us regulars what exactly your views are on gun issues in the US of A
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You are conducting an inquisition? Will thumbscrews be involved? Waterboarding? Perhaps it would be simpler for all of us if you typed up the confession and I signed it?
blackeyesmiley56.gif
 
Layla_Z said:
Let me clear something up since I started this thread. It has nothing to do with gun rights. It has to do with the bad decision to raffle a gun in that place at this time. I have no problem with responsible people having guns. I have no problem at all with hunters. I have no problem with people who target shoot. I have no problem with people who want a gun for self-defense. Do I think gun ownership lowers crime - no. If it did then Europe's crime rate would be higher than ours. So no, I am not interested in prying any gun from anyone's cold dead hands.
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how was it a bad decision? because it upsets hoplophobes and those who don't like the GOP? face it that is what the criticism comes from=leftwingers
 
TurtleDude said:
gun ownership causes fear and trembling in some. Usually those who are cowards and project their b incompetence in using weapons onto others. Many cowards hate being reminded of their own failings and seeing other men armed, ready willing and able to make personal security an INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY (rather than something they-like a liberal-outsources to the government) really accentuates the cowards feelings of failure. So they try to ban guns so they won't be reminded of their own deficiencies as men
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So, I take it that you definitely don't buy into the psychiatric theory that a fascination with guns is phallic indicator of a masculine inferiority complex, often associated with sexual dysfunction related to an inability to perform with the opposite sex and a possible indicator of latent homosexuality. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course . . . .
 
Karl said:
You are conducting an inquisition? Will thumbscrews be involved? Waterboarding? Perhaps it would be simpler for all of us if you typed up the confession and I signed it?
blackeyesmiley56.gif
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Non answers are often as telling as answers.

you don't want to tell us your position on gun rights?

I couldn't care less but I almost always know the answer to any question I ask
 
Karl said:
So, I take it that you definitely don't buy into the psychiatric theory that a fascination with guns is phallic indicator of a masculine inferiority complex, often associated with sexual dysfunction related to an inability to perform with the opposite sex and a possible indicator of latent homosexuality. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course . . . .
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Actually I believe Freud's claim that a fear of weapons is a sign of someone suffering from sexual underdevelopment is more accurate. Your claim is a popular myth that has no basis in science. Jeffrey Snyder's A NATION OF COWARDS explains what causes most hoplophobia.
 
To the current discussion: If we ban guns then eventually we'll have to ban tobacco, prescription painkillers(legal heroin), junk food .... and forget about ever legalizing pot. I'm a Liberal Democrat and I understand this, but, I know some anti-gun liberals unwilling to give up drinking and smoking despite the fact they also kill people. It makes no sense and they should relax.
However, Pro-gun folks need to lighten up also and try to understand that Gun regulations aren't meant as a personal attack on their rights. Regulations aren't Gun Rights true threat, illegal gun owners are ... and if things are this bad with regulations, I can only imagine what it would be like without some "order".
Regulations are intended to preserve gun rights. They're meant to keep that "one bad apple" from "spoiling the whole bunch"
 
Karl said:
Where? In this thread? If so, whom?

Otherwise, what is your relevant point?
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Well OK.....Let's start with YOU.

Tell me and everyone else just how you feel about guns, and people owning guns?. And whats your personal opinion on the Glock handgun?
I think it's one of the best handguns of it's class......Do you agree?
Like many many of others in America, I own a Glock .....Do you.?....if not a Glock......What kind?
 
SeattleRain said:
To the current discussion: If we ban guns then eventually we'll have to ban tobacco, prescription painkillers(legal heroin), junk food .... and forget about ever legalizing pot. I'm a Liberal Democrat and I understand this, but, I know some anti-gun liberals unwilling to give up drinking and smoking despite the fact they also kill people. It makes no sense and they should relax.
However, Pro-gun folks need to lighten up also and try to understand that Gun regulations aren't meant as a personal attack on their rights. Regulations aren't Gun Rights true threat, illegal gun owners are ... and if things are this bad with regulations, I can only imagine what it would be like without some "order".
Regulations are intended to preserve gun rights. They're meant to keep that "one bad apple" from "spoiling the whole bunch"
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many gun regulations are an attack on personal rights. Dem Asswipe charles Schumer bragged that (upon passing the clinton gun ban) that he was going to show the NRA "the rest of the camel" (after the NRA correctly noted that the dem gun laws were merely the nose of the camel under the tent). Indeed, during the debates on the clinton gun laws, the proponents spent most of their time on the floor whining about the NRA and gun groups, not criminals (who already are banned from owning any guns)

many of those who propose gun laws do so to punish pro gun groups and voters.

it started in the 60s when dems were being hammered over being weak on crime fueled by massive crime increases and the race riots that broke out after Dr King was murdered. so dems needed a shield to ward off that attack and they found it by pushing for gun control. Their 1968 gun control act was passed to stave off candidate Nixon's attack on the dems. However, the NRA-which had not been particularly political, took offense and noted that the gun laws were nothing more than feel good nonsense.


The dems were upset that their little facade was being criticized as something that didn't prevent crime nor hurt criminals. Their gun control laws turned the NRA into a formidable lobbying organization and many other gun groups-mainly focused on target shooting and hunting, mobilized into getting out the pro gun vote. Now the dems had enemies that gun control could be used to attack-hunters, shooters and gun groups.

and while the average pro gun control sheep might think such laws deter criminals, the scum that run the ban the gun groups are no different than many of the anti abortion leaders who talk about saving innocent life but really are interested in punishing their political opponents and tying up the opposition's resources in defending rights they once took for granted
 
dixiesolutions said:
Well OK.....Let's start with YOU.

Tell me and everyone else just how you feel about guns, and people owning guns?. And whats your personal opinion on the Glock handgun?
I think it's one of the best handguns of it's class......Do you agree?
Like many many of others in America, I own a Glock .....Do you.?....if not a Glock......What kind?
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I own dozes, many of which I have won in Glock Leagues. I bought my first one right after scumbag Howard Metzenscum of Ohio started whining about them and lying that they could easily evade a metal detector. They aren't my favorite-of the plastic guns the HK P30 is the best made and the Smith and Wesson MP provides the fastest hit potential of any pistol save a tuned 1911. But they are used by the US Marshalls, the FBI and about half the police in the USA

why-because they work and they are very very easy to learn how to shoot well
 
TurtleDude said:
Actually I believe Freud's claim that a fear of weapons is a sign of someone suffering from sexual underdevelopment is more accurate. Your claim is a popular myth that has no basis in science. Jeffrey Snyder's A NATION OF COWARDS explains what causes most hoplophobia.
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I think you mean big trucks. Guys with "big trucks" suffer sexual underdevelopment. Small man syndrome, if you will.

"Fear" is a natural human emotion, silly.
 
SeattleRain said:
I think you mean big trucks. Guys with "big trucks" suffer sexual underdevelopment. Small man syndrome, if you will.

"Fear" is a natural human emotion, silly.
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That is clueless. find some support for your claims

people who fear guns generally loathe their own inadequacy and timidity.
 
apdst said:
The OP is all about anti-gun rights. Otherwise, there wouldn't be any concern over the issue.
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"anti-gun rights"!!!!!

Amazing - simply amazing. Where do you get this stuff from anyways?
 
haymarket said:
"anti-gun rights"!!!!!

Amazing - simply amazing. Where do you get this stuff from anyways?
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Yeah I sort of scratched my head at that one. Anti gun cravings or illness makes far more sense
 
TurtleDude said:
many gun regulations are an attack on personal rights. Dem Asswipe charles Schumer bragged that (upon passing the clinton gun ban) that he was going to show the NRA "the rest of the camel" (after the NRA correctly noted that the dem gun laws were merely the nose of the camel under the tent). Indeed, during the debates on the clinton gun laws, the proponents spent most of their time on the floor whining about the NRA and gun groups, not criminals (who already are banned from owning any guns)

many of those who propose gun laws do so to punish pro gun groups and voters.

it started in the 60s when dems were being hammered over being weak on crime fueled by massive crime increases and the race riots that broke out after Dr King was murdered. so dems needed a shield to ward off that attack and they found it by pushing for gun control. Their 1968 gun control act was passed to stave off candidate Nixon's attack on the dems. However, the NRA-which had not been particularly political, took offense and noted that the gun laws were nothing more than feel good nonsense.


The dems were upset that their little facade was being criticized as something that didn't prevent crime nor hurt criminals. Their gun control laws turned the NRA into a formidable lobbying organization and many other gun groups-mainly focused on target shooting and hunting, mobilized into getting out the pro gun vote. Now the dems had enemies that gun control could be used to attack-hunters, shooters and gun groups.

and while the average pro gun control sheep might think such laws deter criminals, the scum that run the ban the gun groups are no different than many of the anti abortion leaders who talk about saving innocent life but really are interested in punishing their political opponents and tying up the opposition's resources in defending rights they once took for granted
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I realize there are some radical liberals who aim to ban guns... but if Dems in whole REALLY wanted to take away your guns, they would have. I dont know of anyone that has ever proposed a ban on guns ... and if someone did, I would imagine it didn't 'pass' because it lacked enough support from dems as well as repubs. So, I cant figure out where the paranoia comes from.

And if its wrong for the government to regulate your guns, why then is it okay for them to regulate marriage and the female body?
 
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SeattleRain said:
I realize there are some radical liberals who aim to ban guns... but if Dems in whole REALLY wanted to take away your guns, they would have. I dont know of anyone that has ever proposed a ban on guns ... and if someone did I would imagine it didn't 'pass' because it lacked enough support from dems as well as repubs. So, I cant figure out where the paranoia comes from.

And if its wrong for the government to regulate your guns, why then is it okay for them to regulate marriage and the female body?
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there have been many bills introduced to ban guns. Diane Feinswine, the main author of the clinton gun ban told 60 minutes that if she had the votes she would have introduced a law to CONFISCATE all semi auto weapons in the USA--of course that would have resulted in a civil war and probably lots of dead government employees. but she wanted the cops to go house to house confiscating every semi auto. Major Owens, a far left dem congressman at least was honest, he wanted to repeal the second amendment.
 
States regulate marriage, and while I am pro choice there are arguments that have merit that claim banning abortion isn't regulating YOUR BODY. I oppose laws against victimless crimes so if you want to eat shrooms till you see Jimi Hendrix as the new messiah, that is your business as long as I don't have to pay for your hospitalization
 
TurtleDude said:
That is clueless. find some support for your claims

people who fear guns generally loathe their own inadequacy and timidity.
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Guns dont make you a man. That whole "bada*s" crap is for little insecure high school boys. There are veterans who support gun rights but want nothing personal to do with guns anymore. There are people who've seen their bestfriend or loved one shot and suffer PTSD. You dont "know" as much about people as you think you do.
You dont know everyone much-less know why people fear guns.

Apparently you think Megalomania means "intelligence"
 
TurtleDude said:
Non answers are often as telling as answers. you don't want to tell us your position on gun rights? I couldn't care less but I almost always know the answer to any question I ask
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Since you were asking what I think, your latter comment indicates that you claim to be in possession of psychic capabilities, making your argument increasingly ludicrous.

However, I will entertain one part of your approach -- why is my position relevant? Do you not think than an intellectually capable person can argue either side of a position, regardless of their personal ideology? If I could not do so (argue either side regardless of my personal leaning), then I certainly would not enter into any debate, for failure would be the likely outcome. Your approach indicates that if I share your ideology on gun rights then you would be more likely to consider my argument valid.

That is emotional, not logical. Furthermore, I could simply lie about my ideology and none would be the wiser... what type of yardstick is that upon which to measure someones's intellectual mettle? A yardstick employed by those who have a propensity to believe what they are told?

Better the most well-reasoned argument win the debate, rather than the one that agrees with one's own ideology. Wouldn't you agree?
 
SeattleRain said:
Guns dont make you a man. That whole "bada*s" crap is for little insecure high school boys. There are veterans who support gun rights but want nothing personal to do with guns anymore. There are people who've seen their bestfriend or loved one shot and suffer PTSD. You dont "know" as much about people as you think you do.
You dont know everyone much-less know why people fear guns.

Apparently you think Megalomania means "intelligence"
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I have forgotten more about gun issues than you will ever know. I have done it all, been a member of the US shooting team and a world class shooter, an attorney representing law enforcement agencies, gun makers and gun clubs, and a coach of shooting sport athletes. I represented a Title II manufacturer (machine guns) the largest NRA affiliated gun club in the USA, and two major league retail dealers. My representation also involved lobbying. So I have dealt with just about every angle on this issue. and yes, I used a gun to shoot my way out of a mugging.

so the amateur psychologist nonsense doesn't cut it with me. and I know what motivates the anti gun leadership
 
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