View Poll Results: Is this raffle in extremely bad taste?

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  • Yes, the republicans should be ashamed

    17 29.82%
  • No, everyone should really just relax

    34 59.65%
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Thread: GOP's Gun Raffle In Giffords' District Sparks Hot Debate

  1. #21
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    Re: GOP's Gun Raffle In Giffords' District Sparks Hot Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    I think you're stretching it with the car example, especially because cars are not designed to kill people.

    Try again.

    And on a sidenote, I don't own any firearms myself, but I do own kitchen knives!
    Not really. Cars, guns, kitchen knives are inanimate objects. Yes they were designed for different purposes. It is the person using the object that does the killing. Yet, I would guess that cars killed more people in the US than guns did in the last year. How someone is injured or murdered is a mute point.

    Back to the thread. I will say the Republicans could have used a bit more sense in the raffle item, but some are "blowing" this way out of wack.
    "I can explain it to you but, I can't understand it for you"

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    Re: GOP's Gun Raffle In Giffords' District Sparks Hot Debate

    It doesn't bother me. You can't find a town anywhere in the country where at least one person has not been shot. I'd be more concerned about closing the loophole in our society where sociophaths and schitzophrenics can purchase firearms in the first place.

    They're going to raffle something that will bring in the most money. Guns are big ticket items out west. Just because the representative of that district is democratic (this time... it is usually republican) doesn't mean that the district should automatically be a gun-free zone. To put a partisian spin on a damned raffle is going a bit far, in my view. Republicans like guns. In AZ, so do most democrats. If they're trying to raise money, guns will be involved.

  3. #23
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    Re: GOP's Gun Raffle In Giffords' District Sparks Hot Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    .... I'd be more concerned about closing the loophole in our society where sociophaths and schitzophrenics can purchase firearms in the first place.
    .

    Yup, but that's not so much a gun-control issue as it is a psycho-control issue, and it is a complicated matter.

    First of all, someone has to be diagnosed as having a mental disorder. Then, someone in a position of authority has to recognize that this person is not simply someone with a minor mental illness (LOTS of us fall into that category, just most of us haven't been diagnosed as such), but someone who is bughouse nuts and a probable threat to others.

    That isn't easy. Most mental illnesses have a range of severity; Person A may be mildly bipolar but harmless... Person B may be extremely bipolar with highly aggressive tendencies when he's off his meds. They both have the same illness, but to a different degree. I'd be opposed to simply banning everyone who was ever diagnosed with a mental illness from owning a gun... that would discourage people from getting counceling and take rights from people who are no threat to anyone. Probably 90% of people who have been diagnosed with some minor mental illness are no more threat to others than Joe Average.

    You have to seperate out the real loons and psycho-killers from the folks who just have anxiety attacks or minor neurosis. This is a tricky business and might be a little subjective. Futhermore you have to insure communication and cooperation from various departments and services and individual shrinks with the court system, and there has to be due process before someone is stripped of a Constitutional right.

    Then there's the issue of just how easy it is to get firearms from the criminal black market, even if you're banned from legally buying them.

    Hey, I'd like to keep real loonies from getting guns too.... I'm just saying it is a complicated issue, and even if everything goes perfectly there are no guarantees.

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  4. #24
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    Re: GOP's Gun Raffle In Giffords' District Sparks Hot Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Extremely bad taste, a hunting rifle or a shotgun is one thing, but this murder machine come with 3 magazines.
    Yeah Federal Marshalls are murderers. That's what they carry. what insane psychobabble



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    Re: GOP's Gun Raffle In Giffords' District Sparks Hot Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Yup, but that's not so much a gun-control issue as it is a psycho-control issue, and it is a complicated matter.

    First of all, someone has to be diagnosed as having a mental disorder. Then, someone in a position of authority has to recognize that this person is not simply someone with a minor mental illness (LOTS of us fall into that category, just most of us haven't been diagnosed as such), but someone who is bughouse nuts and a probable threat to others.

    That isn't easy. Most mental illnesses have a range of severity; Person A may be mildly bipolar but harmless... Person B may be extremely bipolar with highly aggressive tendencies when he's off his meds. They both have the same illness, but to a different degree. I'd be opposed to simply banning everyone who was ever diagnosed with a mental illness from owning a gun... that would discourage people from getting counceling and take rights from people who are no threat to anyone. Probably 90% of people who have been diagnosed with some minor mental illness are no more threat to others than Joe Average.

    You have to seperate out the real loons and psycho-killers from the folks who just have anxiety attacks or minor neurosis. This is a tricky business and might be a little subjective. Futhermore you have to insure communication and cooperation from various departments and services and individual shrinks with the court system, and there has to be due process before someone is stripped of a Constitutional right.

    Then there's the issue of just how easy it is to get firearms from the criminal black market, even if you're banned from legally buying them.

    Hey, I'd like to keep real loonies from getting guns too.... I'm just saying it is a complicated issue, and even if everything goes perfectly there are no guarantees.
    In states with lax gun control laws, I think that people just need to accept the fact that once in awhile a deranged lunatic will be able to more easily get his/her hands on a gun and kill a bunch of people in a random, bloody rampage. Maybe you call it a fact of life? I dunno...

    I don't think there'll ever be a "great" way of identifying these people, there's just too many variations of mental illness, unfortunately. People are much too random and unpredictable.

    Also, although it may be 'easy' to get firearms from the criminal black market, it's always going to be much easier (for the person w/out a violent criminal record) to buy one legally.

    For instance, I'm pretty sure most middle class accountants, ect, don't have a "hookup" to call in the black market to score some firearms if the law prevented them from buying one legally. What are they supposed to do, post a code-worded craigslist ad? Hang out on a street corner in the bad side of town?
    Last edited by David D.; 09-03-11 at 12:42 AM.

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    Re: GOP's Gun Raffle In Giffords' District Sparks Hot Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z View Post
    GOP's Gun Raffle In Giffords' District Sparks Hot Debate : The Two-Way : NPR

    So a Glock is the only thing they could think of to raffle?!? Really!?! Wouldn't a better choice be something that everyone would want? Oh, and it is insanely insensitive.
    The only way this would have been in bad taste is if they had the the actual gun that nut case used. So I voted No, everyone should really just relax all the little girls should quit getting their panties in a wad.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  7. #27
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    Re: GOP's Gun Raffle In Giffords' District Sparks Hot Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    In states with lax gun control laws, I think that people just need to accept the fact that once in awhile a deranged lunatic will be able to more easily get his/her hands on a gun and kill a bunch of people in a random, bloody rampage. Maybe you call it a fact of life? I dunno...

    I don't think there'll ever be a "great" way of identifying these people, there's just too many variations of mental illness, unfortunately. People are much too random and unpredictable.

    Also, although it may be 'easy' to get firearms from the criminal black market, it's always going to be much easier (for the person w/out a violent criminal record) to buy one legally.

    For instance, I'm pretty sure most middle class accountants, ect, don't have a "hookup" to call in the black market to score some firearms if the law prevented them from buying one legally. What are they supposed to do, post a code-worded craigslist ad? Hang out on a street corner in the bad side of town?

    How many middle-class accountants without shady connections can you name who have gone on mass killing sprees?

    Most people know, or know of, someone who smokes weed or crack. Talk to his dealer and you might have to go through a layer or two, but you can get an illegal gun within 48 hours, whatever color your collar is.

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    Re: GOP's Gun Raffle In Giffords' District Sparks Hot Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    How many middle-class accountants without shady connections can you name who have gone on mass killing sprees?
    Well, at least one guy:

    METRO NEWS BRIEFS - CONNECTICUT - METRO NEWS BRIEFS - CONNECTICUT - Burial for Killer Of Lottery Workers - NYTimes.com


    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Most people know, or know of, someone who smokes weed or crack. Talk to his dealer and you might have to go through a layer or two, but you can get an illegal gun within 48 hours, whatever color your collar is.
    Lol, I get the point. But I certainly don't feel like setting up some strange meeting with the boss of the dealer of my friend who sells weed, especially when it's to purchase a black market glock and I'm some 34 year old white collared accountant with absolutely no street cred. If I'm on the fence at this point about doing the killing spree, this might be a deterrent.

    Look, if it's legal to buy a gun, it's just much, much easier to get your hands on one. Am I wrong?

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    Re: GOP's Gun Raffle In Giffords' District Sparks Hot Debate


    Okay, you found one.






    Lol, I get the point. But I certainly don't feel like setting up some strange meeting with the boss of the dealer of my friend who sells weed, especially when it's to purchase a black market glock and I'm some 34 year old white collared accountant with absolutely no street cred. If I'm on the fence at this point about doing the killing spree, this might be a deterrent.

    Look, if it's legal to buy a gun, it's just much, much easier to get your hands on one. Am I wrong?
    Depends on what you mean and where you're going with this. Sure, if you have a clean criminal background and no other "red flags" on your record, buying a gun in a gunstore is easy and in my state takes less than half an hour. But so what?

    If involuntary committment orders and suchlike aren't already part of NICS file system, they should be... I've said so before. But Gifford's shooter had never been officially recognized and filed as a nutcase. He had apparently never been convicted of a felony or committed to a mental ward. The people who KNEW he was nuts had not come forward to the authorities and said "you need to lock this guy up, he's crazy and he could hurt someone."

    Some people slip through the cracks.

    What's the alternative? Ban guns for everyone because of a 0.000001 ratio of bad apples? Shall we ban free speech because a few abuse it? No thanks.

    If you have a solution that will actually keep people like that from getting guns and at the same time won't infringe on the rights of the law-abiding, I'm all ears.
    Last edited by Goshin; 09-03-11 at 01:49 AM.

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    Re: GOP's Gun Raffle In Giffords' District Sparks Hot Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    Back to the thread. I will say the Republicans could have used a bit more sense in the raffle item, but some are "blowing" this way out of wack.
    Very well said.


    It is just too soon in time and locale to where the punk killed 6 peoples including the 9 year old girl.

    Really don't understand the mindset behind the people who set up this raffle. Is the few bucks they make worth the number of potential voters they may alienate?

    Just don't think this is the cowboy way to conduct yourself.
    Last edited by Crosscheck; 09-03-11 at 01:52 AM.

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