View Poll Results: Is this raffle in extremely bad taste?

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Thread: GOP's Gun Raffle In Giffords' District Sparks Hot Debate

  1. #111
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    Re: GOP's Gun Raffle In Giffords' District Sparks Hot Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    u-mad bro?
    Moderator's Warning:
    GOP's Gun Raffle In Giffords' District Sparks Hot DebateJerry, don't troll this thread.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  2. #112
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    Re: GOP's Gun Raffle In Giffords' District Sparks Hot Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    [...] Firearms, pistols in particular, along with my issued military service weapons, are produced for lawful use.

    They are not produced for criminal activity. Therefore, using a firearm to murder is an abuse of that weapon, inconsistent with that weapon's purpose and design. [...]
    Firearms are produced to kill living things. I don't know why what I'll presume is the right is running away from that undeniable fact. 99.9% of all things in existence are not produced for criminal activity, rendering your argument absurd (note: that figure is an approximation ). All the wing-flapping about murder is irrelevant; if a firearm is used to murder, then it is fulfilling its design goal -- killing something.

    Unless, your argument that killing things is inconsistent with the purpose and design of a firearm. If that is the case, then can you explain the need to propel a 165 grain bullet at a velocity of 900 feet per second in order to damage a tin can or a piece of cardboard? Would not a BB gun serve the same purposes, at least at short distances?

    The point of the OP, if I may be so bold and if I may return to the original premise of the thread, is that a hi-capacity pistol is a rather odd thing for a political party to be raffling off in order to raise funds, especially in the district where a Congresswoman was recently shot with the same brand and style of firearm. The OP has a valid point. Instead of equivocating on the use of a firearm I would have expected the 2nd Amendmentists to simply champion the right to keep and bear arms regardless of who is doing the trafficking of the weapon (in this case, the local GOP), as long as it is legal. Instead, given all the apologist posts out there on this issue (apologizing for the uses of firearms and trying to equate them as harmless), I get the impression of cognitive dissonance (knowing that the act is wrong, but trying to legitimize it with various illogical rationale).

    As was noted earlier, this is likely an intentional provocation by the local GOP. Otherwise they are rather dense (and I doubt that is the case).

  3. #113
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    Re: GOP's Gun Raffle In Giffords' District Sparks Hot Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    Nope, an Austrian made Glock. The AZ repubs are into high quality stuff ya know.
    SW MP is a better weapon than a glock. I took one of the first available to a training facility frequented by David Bowie-an expert gunsmith in modifying plastic frame guns. The next year all the staff were using SW's rather than glocks

    Look up his work, its BowieTacticalConcepts.com I think



  4. #114
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    Re: GOP's Gun Raffle In Giffords' District Sparks Hot Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Firearms are produced to kill living things. I don't know why what I'll presume is the right is running away from that undeniable fact. 99.9% of all things in existence are not produced for criminal activity, rendering your argument absurd (note: that figure is an approximation ). All the wing-flapping about murder is irrelevant; if a firearm is used to murder, then it is fulfilling its design goal -- killing something.

    Unless, your argument that killing things is inconsistent with the purpose and design of a firearm. If that is the case, then can you explain the need to propel a 165 grain bullet at a velocity of 900 feet per second in order to damage a tin can or a piece of cardboard? Would not a BB gun serve the same purposes, at least at short distances?

    The point of the OP, if I may be so bold and if I may return to the original premise of the thread, is that a hi-capacity pistol is a rather odd thing for a political party to be raffling off in order to raise funds, especially in the district where a Congresswoman was recently shot with the same brand and style of firearm. The OP has a valid point. Instead of equivocating on the use of a firearm I would have expected the 2nd Amendmentists to simply champion the right to keep and bear arms regardless of who is doing the trafficking of the weapon (in this case, the local GOP), as long as it is legal. Instead, given all the apologist posts out there on this issue (apologizing for the uses of firearms and trying to equate them as harmless), I get the impression of cognitive dissonance (knowing that the act is wrong, but trying to legitimize it with various illogical rationale).

    As was noted earlier, this is likely an intentional provocation by the local GOP. Otherwise they are rather dense (and I doubt that is the case).
    First you are wrong. most firearms I own are designed for shooting at targets. Secondly, there is nothing wrong with shooting people as long as the proper scumbags get shot.

    Communists hate armed citizens since armed citizens are a prophylactic against the scourge of communism



  5. #115
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    Re: GOP's Gun Raffle In Giffords' District Sparks Hot Debate

    Raffle: I dont think there's anything wrong with a gun raffle. Just not right now. Whether it was meant to be harmful is irrelevant. It's insensitive.
    This is about having respect and empathy for other human beings-it's about everyone who died that day and their families as much as it is about Gabby and hers. This is not an attack on you, guns or gun rights. Stop using this as one more thing to fight about and be human for a moment



    As to the Mosque and Muslims: There wasnt all this concern with Muslims being "terrorist", as a whole, when we sent our young American Men and Women to die so that a nation of "Islamic terrorist Muslims" could live in a democracy. I dont see how Muslims were good for American blood but not good enough to have a Mosque close to ground zero - or not good enough to hold any public office in the United States?
    No one seemed too concerned when Republican President George W. Bush had Saudi Prince Abdullah over to his personal home in TX for a family dinner. Abdullah was named one of the worlds top 500 most influential Muslims in the world, twice. Nor did anyone seem to care when Bush announced on national TV that Muslims were Peaceful people. Where was the uproar then?

    From a Christian perspective, Jesus would have "walked in love" with Muslims "kneeling with them in prayer" and "feeding them living water".
    He would have never lived in constant suspect or fear.. and He would have commanded His followers to "love your enemy/neighbor as you love yourself" and to "fear not" because He "is with you"


    I'm not suggesting you shouldnt be concerned with Religious rule... It all makes me nervous, and I'm more concerned with Christian rule than I am Islamic rule at this point, but my point is: Christians can do all things through Christ. So use Christ the RIGHT way and LOVE people.

    The difference between Juddaism, Islam and Christianity is Jesus being the Messiah(or not), but in the name of Jesus, Christians degrade people and call it love. It's safe to say that ALL three Religions prove GOD to be the greatest Domestic Violence Abuser of all.


    Christians shouldn't work so HARD to hate people that they forget how to love.
    Last edited by Flippinfunky; 09-03-11 at 07:41 PM.
    Silly poor people
    Tax cuts are for the rich!

  6. #116
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    Re: GOP's Gun Raffle In Giffords' District Sparks Hot Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Let's turn this around a bit. Let's say that about half a year ago, in a certain town, there was an incident where a driver ran a 1968 Ford Mustang into a crowd and killed several people. Now, half a year later, some organization has a raffle and the object of the raffle is a brand new 2011 Ford F350 truck, donated by a local dealership. Should people be incensed that someone is raffling off a Ford, the same make of vehicle that was used in the mass-runover? Even though it is a different model and type of vehicle and the incident happened several months ago? Just because it is a "Ford" brand vehicle?

    That's about how much the one has to do with the other.
    Not quite a fair comparison. Anyone who isn't blind can immediately see the difference between a 1968 mustang and a 2011 Ford F350. A lot fewer people could pick out the difference between two different glocks. Hell, I own several guns now, go shooting regularly, and have shot a couple different glocks, and I'm not sure I could tell you the difference between two different glocks just by knowing the model name or seeing a picture.

    The GOP could have avoided this whole mess by auctioning off a Springfield XDM instead, and it's a better gun to boot.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  7. #117
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    Re: GOP's Gun Raffle In Giffords' District Sparks Hot Debate

    It just happens that they are raffling the same "TYPE" gun that was used in the Gifford's shooting. We must remember that the gun they are raffling is not the SAME gun used in the shooting, let's remember that the individual did it and not the gun, guns don't fire by themselves. It just happens that this particular gun is very popular.
    Catch me if you can.

  8. #118
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    Re: GOP's Gun Raffle In Giffords' District Sparks Hot Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    They are making that abundantly clear with all this "guns are for killing" talk.
    I know these lefties. They no more care about Gifford than the worts on their asses.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  9. #119
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    Re: GOP's Gun Raffle In Giffords' District Sparks Hot Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleRain View Post
    Raffle: I dont think there's anything wrong with a gun raffle. Just not right now. Whether it was meant to be harmful is irrelevant. It's insensitive.
    This is about having respect and empathy for other human beings-it's about everyone who died that day and their families as much as it is about Gabby and hers. This is not an attack on you, guns or gun rights. Stop using this as one more thing to fight about and be human for a moment



    As to the Mosque and Muslims: There wasnt all this concern with Muslims being "terrorist", as a whole, when we sent our young American Men and Women to die so that a nation of "Islamic terrorist Muslims" could live in a democracy. I dont see how Muslims were good for American blood but not good enough to have a Mosque close to ground zero - or not good enough to hold any public office in the United States?
    No one seemed too concerned when Republican President George W. Bush had Saudi Prince Abdullah over to his personal home in TX for a family dinner. Abdullah was named one of the worlds top 500 most influential Muslims in the world, twice. Nor did anyone seem to care when Bush announced on national TV that Muslims were Peaceful people. Where was the uproar then?

    From a Christian perspective, Jesus would have "walked in love" with Muslims "kneeling with them in prayer" and "feeding them living water".
    He would have never lived in constant suspect or fear.. and He would have commanded His followers to "love your enemy/neighbor as you love yourself" and to "fear not" because He "is with you"


    I'm not suggesting you shouldnt be concerned with Religious rule... It all makes me nervous, and I'm more concerned with Christian rule than I am Islamic rule at this point, but my point is: Christians can do all things through Christ. So use Christ the RIGHT way and LOVE people.

    The difference between Juddaism, Islam and Christianity is Jesus being the Messiah(or not), but in the name of Jesus, Christians degrade people and call it love. It's safe to say that ALL three Religions prove GOD to be the greatest Domestic Violence Abuser of all.


    Christians shouldn't work so HARD to hate people that they forget how to love.
    We have a drive-by.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  10. #120
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    Re: GOP's Gun Raffle In Giffords' District Sparks Hot Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Unless your confessing to your equivocation: a gun can't be a murder machine if it's only about firing bullets. Guns would be bullet machines, and it is the bullet which you would accuse of being the murder machine.

    Either way, it's not the gun.

    .
    I really do not have the slightest idea of what you are talking about or what your point is.

    Perhaps that is because I do not prostrate myself before the altar that you do.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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