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Thread: Should there be a "Swift Justice" law

  1. #1
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    Should there be a "Swift Justice" law

    Anders Behring Breivik killed 77 people including children on the 22nd of July 2011.

    He will be tried through a painfully slow justice system and ultimately will be convicted and spend the rest of his natural life behind bars.

    Now normally I'm against the death penalty. But it just seems to me that acts of this nature, extraordinary nature I might add, require extraordinary responses. Its obvious he did it, I don't need a jury or a judge to tell me otherwise.

    And its painfully obvious given the barbarity of his crimes, and his depraved reasoning that he has simply forfieted his right to live.

    In this case, I believe a summary execution is entirely justified. No need for torture, no fuss, just taken behind the shed and put down.

    But he's only one example.

    I believe there should be a clause in the justice system for events like this, and for example Loughner, for acts such as this, where its painfully obvious that they're guilty and willfully carried out the actions of their own free will, that they should be summarily executed.

    Of course this is a pipe dream, very extreme on my part and I'll be first one to admit it goes against alot of what I believe and it goes against the very fabric that the law is. The law has to apply equally, and at the end of the day, is there truly a moral difference between someone who stabs a woman to death for $130 or shoots a person in cold blood because they believe they're an idealogical enemy...

    Not really.

    But mass murderers, especially ones like Loughner, and Breivik, don't just wake up one day and decide to committ these acts, they take time, careful consideration, planning and execution, and lets go one step further. For world leaders that committ crimes against their own people. Such as genocide and other maliticous acts. Lets do it to them as well. Milosovec didn't deserve the ICC, he deserved a shot to the back of the head after bring raped with a hot iron for all the attrocities he caused. He carefully planned and executed a campaign of national ethnic cleansing and mass rape that was years in the making and lasted 3 years. The Nazi leaders that were hung deserved their fate for the brutal and systematic slaughter they unleashed...

    But again I absolutely and openly admit that its all in the end emotionalism. This whole post is. But when I see Breivik and Loughner being coddled, relatively speaking, given the so much rights and priveledges when its obvious and doesn't even require a judge, jury of investigation that the only priveledge these men gave to anyone was a bullet or a bomb... its enough to boil your blood.

  2. #2
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    Re: Should there be a "Swift Justice" law

    Who decides which cases are sufficiently obvious to permit denying due process to the accused? Say it is a judge. What would stop a judge from just declaring half his docket to be that obvious? What could stop a wave of public hysteria from convicting an innocent person that was just disliked for some other reason or in the wrong place at the wrong time?

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    Re: Should there be a "Swift Justice" law

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Who decides which cases are sufficiently obvious to permit denying due process to the accused? Say it is a judge. What would stop a judge from just declaring half his docket to be that obvious? What could stop a wave of public hysteria from convicting an innocent person that was just disliked for some other reason or in the wrong place at the wrong time?
    The obvious flaw in my reasoning.

    I'm well aware.

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    Re: Should there be a "Swift Justice" law

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil
    Who decides which cases are sufficiently obvious to permit denying due process to the accused? Say it is a judge. What would stop a judge from just declaring half his docket to be that obvious? What could stop a wave of public hysteria from convicting an innocent person that was just disliked for some other reason or in the wrong place at the wrong time?
    Ever hear of appellate court? I doubt Jet is talking capture to execution in a week or two, but let's face it - some criminals fall well beyond the realm of "reasonable doubt".

    What we need to do is, instead of having up to 7 appeals (which will end up costing more than the price of putting a man in prison for the rest of his natural life), shorten it down to 1 appeal. If two competent judges say you should die, you're dead.

    And you know what will stop a judge from doing that? His job.

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    Re: Should there be a "Swift Justice" law

    The law is the law. If the death penalty is allowed for cases in which you approve of it, it is a matter of certainty that it will be applied in cases in which you disapprove of it.

    As much as I believe in the death penalty, and I believe in it a lot, I believe in due process more.

  6. #6
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    Re: Should there be a "Swift Justice" law

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Ever hear of appellate court?
    You can't have an appeal before you have a trial. That's what appeals are for- to determine if the trial was fair. Without a trial there would be nothing to appeal and no basis for the appellate court to rule on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    I doubt Jet is talking capture to execution in a week or two, but let's face it - some criminals fall well beyond the realm of "reasonable doubt".
    Everybody agrees with that statement, but how do you determine who is "beyond the realm of reasonable doubt" without a trial? Just gut instinct? The random draw of a judge?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    What we need to do is, instead of having up to 7 appeals (which will end up costing more than the price of putting a man in prison for the rest of his natural life), shorten it down to 1 appeal. If two competent judges say you should die, you're dead.
    Most cases only get one appeal. I'm not sure where you're getting 7 from.

    The way it works in both the state and federal systems is that you have trial courts, which hear the actual evidence and witnesses and whatnot. Then there are appeals courts- for example the circuit courts in the federal system. Appeals courts are required to hear any appeal, so every defendant can have at least one appeal if they believe there was something wrong in their initial trial. In 99% of cases, that is the end of the road. Supreme courts are not required to hear all appeals, they just pick the cases that they think warrant another review from all those that apply for a second round of review. Usually that is less than 1% of cases that they decide to hear, and usually it is because they think the appeals court got something wrong or two appeals courts disagree over a particular legal point and they want to clarify it.

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    Re: Should there be a "Swift Justice" law

    In capital offenses, it's up to 7. And just look at the case he mentioned. There is no doubt the man did it. The only possible defenses would be centered around mens rea - I know how schiesters love to use the insanity plea. Fortunately, I think they'll cutting down on that being a legitimate defense.

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    Re: Should there be a "Swift Justice" law

    "Justice" is blind and must stay that way.
    "Swift justice" = vigilantism = lynchings (innocent or not, this does not matter)...
    But our criminal justice does need improvement, which I am certain the conservatives will try to block.

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    Re: Should there be a "Swift Justice" law

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Anders Behring Breivik killed 77 people including children on the 22nd of July 2011.

    He will be tried through a painfully slow justice system and ultimately will be convicted and spend the rest of his natural life behind bars.

    Now normally I'm against the death penalty. But it just seems to me that acts of this nature, extraordinary nature I might add, require extraordinary responses. Its obvious he did it, I don't need a jury or a judge to tell me otherwise.

    And its painfully obvious given the barbarity of his crimes, and his depraved reasoning that he has simply forfieted his right to live.

    In this case, I believe a summary execution is entirely justified. No need for torture, no fuss, just taken behind the shed and put down.

    But he's only one example.

    I believe there should be a clause in the justice system for events like this, and for example Loughner, for acts such as this, where its painfully obvious that they're guilty and willfully carried out the actions of their own free will, that they should be summarily executed.

    Of course this is a pipe dream, very extreme on my part and I'll be first one to admit it goes against alot of what I believe and it goes against the very fabric that the law is. The law has to apply equally, and at the end of the day, is there truly a moral difference between someone who stabs a woman to death for $130 or shoots a person in cold blood because they believe they're an idealogical enemy...

    Not really.

    But mass murderers, especially ones like Loughner, and Breivik, don't just wake up one day and decide to committ these acts, they take time, careful consideration, planning and execution, and lets go one step further. For world leaders that committ crimes against their own people. Such as genocide and other maliticous acts. Lets do it to them as well. Milosovec didn't deserve the ICC, he deserved a shot to the back of the head after bring raped with a hot iron for all the attrocities he caused. He carefully planned and executed a campaign of national ethnic cleansing and mass rape that was years in the making and lasted 3 years. The Nazi leaders that were hung deserved their fate for the brutal and systematic slaughter they unleashed...

    But again I absolutely and openly admit that its all in the end emotionalism. This whole post is. But when I see Breivik and Loughner being coddled, relatively speaking, given the so much rights and priveledges when its obvious and doesn't even require a judge, jury of investigation that the only priveledge these men gave to anyone was a bullet or a bomb... its enough to boil your blood.
    I agree 99.99%
    Good improvements - should be enacted - now!

  10. #10
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    Re: Should there be a "Swift Justice" law

    Negatory. You would increase the number of these incidents if the perps knew that they would be quickly executed. Turning the weapon on yourself, or suicide by Cop requires pain. Those that can't do that need to sit in an 8'x5' cage for 10-15 years before being executed. It's part of the punishment. One hour a day in the dog walk, 23 hours a day in the cage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    The systems that ensure freedom and liberty are breaking down and fundamentalism is growing. Nobody is righteous anymore.


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