View Poll Results: Do you view social security is an entitlement that can be altered?

Voters
90. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, it should be eliminated completely.

    45 50.00%
  • Yes, I could handle a small level of program reduction.

    6 6.67%
  • No, its my money, and the government has no right to touch it.

    32 35.56%
  • I dont know and/or it depends on what is offered as a replacement program.

    7 7.78%
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Thread: Do you view Social Security as an entitlement?

  1. #111
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    it's an entitlement if you worked all your life n you put money into it.

  2. #112
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    Re: Do you view Social Security as an entitlement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    An "entitlement program" within American ideological lexicon is pretty much anything you haven't put money into and yet feel you have a right to use. So SS is an "entitlement program" depending on who is receiving it. I am entitled to it because I've worked and supported it. Others feel they're entitled to it even though they've made no effort to become supportive members of society. So yes, it's an entitlement program, but entitlement is defined by referencing the individual in question.
    An intelligent answer to what boils down to a silly thing begun by conservatives...

  3. #113
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    Re: Do you view Social Security as an entitlement?

    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    It's a bit more like a loan to the government that you may or may not get repaid on.

    I'm <30 years old, and I don't expect to see anything back from SS So you are another one of those who trusts not his own government - but why ??? ; this is why I'm saving and planning for my retirement on my own.

    So for me, it's just another tax which I may never benefit from.
    Do you not know that individuals do not always benefit from taxes, but their society does.

  4. #114
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    Re: Do you view Social Security as an entitlement?

    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    This is nothing more then conservatives trying to find ways to continue to plunder more money from the middle class and poor,
    fascinating. the Social Security Administration under the Obama Presidency is made up of conservatives trying to find ways to plunder the poor and middle class?

    it ain't going to happen and if it does the republicans can kiss thier party good bye. Many niddle class and poor people depend on SS monies for life sustaining needs
    they depend on a pittance - Social Security does not provide the money necessary for our working poor to survive, which is why we should reform it so that it does.

  5. #115
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    Re: Do you view Social Security as an entitlement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    That people are putting the entitlements of seniors who've labored their entire lives and paid large percentages of their income in the expectation of monetary support toward the end of life, beneath the interests of corporations whose existence has in no sense contributed to the well being of American society, as a means of resolving debt issues (incurred to support the excesses of those same corporations), is completely absurd and a sign of a culture in serious moral and political decline.
    This statement would be true if it was correct. No one wants to "take" anything from anyone. There isn't a single politician out there recommending we screw the elderly out of anything. The elderly got screwed the second they put faith in a government program. What is being proposed is that future generations (those not already dependent) be given the option to actually do something useful for themselves with the money they earn.

  6. #116
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    Re: Do you view Social Security as an entitlement?

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenvilleGrows View Post
    Both of these statements are very misleading.

    If you don't read anything else in this post, please look at the last link included.

    The President doesn't control the spending. Yes, he's supposed to put forth the budget, but Bill Clinton was the only President who had a line item veto for awhile. Meaning, if Congress wants to do something strongly enough, the President can't stop it. He sure can't hold up the budget because then everybody screams "fire" ("government shut down").

    Republicans controlled the House and Senate from 1995 to 2000.
    1996 Debt Increased by 6.71%
    1997 Debt Increased by 3.37%
    1998 Debt Increased by 2.03%
    1999 Debt Increased by 2.88%
    2000 Debt Decreased by 1.97% (a product of the "Contract with America" led by Newt Gingrich in preceding years)

    in 2001 and 2002 the House and Senate were split and the debt grew by an average of 6.37% (9/11) and to a height of a 9.25% increase by 2003 when Republicans (not particularly conservative Republicans) regained a slight majority. Then the increase decreased (politician speak) gradually each year (9.25%, 8.55%, 7.56%, 6.24%) to 6.24% in 2006. The Democrats gained control of both House and Senate in 2007 (elected end of 2006) and in 2008 the increase in debt jumped from 6.32% in 2007 to 15.93% in 2008 another 15.06% in 2009 and another 13.92% in 2010. About a 52% increase in debt in just 3 years -wow!

    Social Security, primarily, pays people from what new people put into the system (not from what people put in themselves). When it runs short, it's backed by the Treasury. When the Treasury runs short, Congress raises the debt ceiling. If, eventually, Congress doesn't balance the budget and can't borrow more money, Social Security, at some point, will default.

    For example, the fund was nearly depleted in 1982. No beneficiary was shortchanged because the Congress enacted temporary emergency legislation that permitted borrowing from other Federal trust funds. The borrowed amounts were repaid with interest within 4 years.

    In 1996 the Treasury Dept. announced it did not have enough money to pay Social Security benefits for the month of March because it could not issue new debt. However, Congress passed a law allowing the department to temporarily issue securities in an amount equal to those payments, in such a way that would not count against the debt ceiling in the short-term. The benefits were paid and Congress subsequently raised the debt ceiling from $4.9 trillion to $5.5 trillion. The payments are not protected if Treasury does not have the money to pay them.

    On paper, it looks pretty stable right now: Social Security Online - HISTORY -- the worry is the increasing population in retirees compared to those putting money into the system -- starting about 2020: http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/96xx/doc9...rityUpdate.pdf (BAD NEWS!)
    Your post is very misleading

    The reason why the deficit grew in 200 and 2009 had more to do with programs passed when the republicans controlled congress (Medicare D, PATRIOT Act, military budgets, the TSA, the HSA, pork laden agricultural and transportation bills, and tax cuts) than with anything the dems in congress did.
    Last edited by sangha; 09-13-11 at 11:15 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  7. #117
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    Re: Do you view Social Security as an entitlement?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Thats perfect if you can make enough to do that.
    The Fed Gvmnt takes 6.2% of your income for SocSec.
    If you can afford that 6.2% - a question no one ever asks, so the assumption is that you can - then, if you arent paying that 6.2% into SS, you can afford to pay it into a 401K.

  8. #118
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    Re: Do you view Social Security as an entitlement?

    Going back to OP. I have several problems with SS:

    It was not voluntary. No one can refuse to have SS deucted from their paycheck.

    It is not deductable for tax purposes. My 401K is a write off, which I volunteered to join.

    It is not guaranteed according to the SC in the Fleming Case. Social Security Online History Pages

    In this 1960 Supreme Court decision Nestor's denial of benefits was upheld even though he had contributed to the program for 19 years and was already receiving benefits. Under a 1954 law, Social Security benefits were denied to persons deported for, among other things, having been a member of the Communist party. Accordingly, Mr. Nestor's benefits were terminated. He appealed the termination arguing, among other claims, that promised Social Security benefits were a contract and that Congress could not renege on that contract. In its ruling, the Court rejected this argument and established the principle that entitlement to Social Security benefits is not contractual right.


    It is not going into my own SS account. My deduction is going to a current retiree making it similiar to a pyramid model. If funding ceases for SS, it goes insolvent.
    My family is more important than my party.
    -Zell Miller

  9. #119
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    Re: Do you view Social Security as an entitlement?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    fascinating. the Social Security Administration under the Obama Presidency is made up of conservatives trying to find ways to plunder the poor and middle class?



    they depend on a pittance - Social Security does not provide the money necessary for our working poor to survive, which is why we should reform it so that it does.
    I do not want my SS monies invested in Wall Street, I want to be invested in a program that does depend on market whims, your plan makes it possible for people to borrow against thier investments prior to retirement age that will mean that many people will hit retirement age with no retirement monies left in fact they could reach retirement age in be in debt.

    SS is the best bet for the middle class and poor,

    When the market plunges where does the money go? It does not just disappear it's not thrown into an incinerator some one has it, some one is getting rich whether the market goes up or down

  10. #120
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    Re: Do you view Social Security as an entitlement?

    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    I do not want my SS monies invested in Wall Street, I want to be invested in a program that does depend on market whims, your plan makes it possible for people to borrow against thier investments prior to retirement age that will mean that many people will hit retirement age with no retirement monies left in fact they could reach retirement age in be in debt.

    SS is the best bet for the middle class and poor,

    When the market plunges where does the money go? It does not just disappear it's not thrown into an incinerator some one has it, some one is getting rich whether the market goes up or down
    SS is not a good bet, nor a good return for the middle class and poor - the return is horrendous and the system is unsustainable. Where does the money go? If you had bothered to read the post, you would have seen that I had already provided those numbers. If a low income worker never makes more than 32,000 a year in his entire life, and see's a market crash like what we saw in late 2008/ early 2009 just as he retires, and then he withdraws all his money at the bottom so that he doesn't get to ride any of the recovery... then he still ends up with a benefit more than twice what he could have expected from Social (in)Security.

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