View Poll Results: Should the woman's choice dictate that the man has to pay child support?

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  • Should the woman be responsible for her own choice to not abort?

    16 37.21%
  • Should the man be forced to pay child support due to the choice of the woman?

    14 32.56%
  • Other option?

    13 30.23%
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Thread: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

  1. #71
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    its very little support if any when the people do NOT want to be parents.

    the fact really is it does little to nothing in the majority of cases where the parent wants no responsibility.

    Money is not a replacement for parents and in reality it does little because most times WHEN PEOPLE DONT WANT TO BE PARENTS its not much money or they simple dont pay.

    thats the point, in reality it does very little in the cases where parents dont want responsibility which is what we are talking about.
    none of this changes the fact that demanding child support is one of the only things government can do to hold parents accountable to some extent. it also doesn't change the fact that in some cases, it does help the child. it doesn't matter if it "does little" most of the time because sometimes it does a lot or at least more than without it. i'm also not in support of getting rid of child support laws just because some people don't want to be parents. if that lack of desire makes them not pay up, then the law should just be enforced better not eliminated.

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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    none of this changes the fact that demanding child support is one of the only things government can do to hold parents accountable to some extent. it also doesn't change the fact that in some cases, it does help the child. it doesn't matter if it "does little" most of the time because sometimes it does a lot or at least more than without it. i'm also not in support of getting rid of child support laws just because some people don't want to be parents. if that lack of desire makes them not pay up, then the law should just be enforced better not eliminated.
    yes its a fact government can TRY and make you pay, so what, thats meaningless in reality or to this deabte

    the fact is if the parent doesnt want to be a parent it helps very little if at all in the vast majority of cases, you see that every day, making the laws fair isnt going to impact this, THATS THE REAL POINT.

    The case where the money helps probably wont change one bit.

    there should be an option not to do so in the beginning. Read post 52, that is the most sound and logical way to start to set things up, to make it fair and bring in equality to the situation. I hope one day it happens.
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  3. #73
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    yes its a fact government can TRY and make you pay, so what, thats meaningless in reality or to this deabte

    the fact is if the parent doesnt want to be a parent it helps very little if at all in the vast majority of cases, you see that every day, making the laws fair isnt going to impact this, THATS THE REAL POINT.

    The case where the money helps probably wont change one bit.

    there should be an option not to do so in the beginning. Read post 52, that is the most sound and logical way to start to set things up, to make it fair and bring in equality to the situation. I hope one day it happens.
    Okay, I read your post, I read #52 and I still disagree with you. When you create something, you're responsible for it. And if it helps some kids, then it's worth keeping in my opinion. People should be able to forfeit responsibility just because they don't feel like taking it. If anything, the law should be enforced harder.

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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Okay, I read your post, I read #52 and I still disagree with you. When you create something, you're responsible for it. And if it helps some kids, then it's worth keeping in my opinion. People should be able to forfeit responsibility just because they don't feel like taking it. If anything, the law should be enforced harder.
    your allowed to disagree but the fact remains that it does little to nothing currently for the people who do not want the responsibility. So making the law fair isnt going to have a real impact. Those few, if they even exist, WILL get taken care of anyway IF they have a parent who cares by social programs that already exist.

    Enforcing the law harder wont have any real impact either because it will still only a monetary thing something minor in the overall picture.

    there is no reason to continue the discrimination against those people when these kids will get cared for equally or better anyway.

    For example and this is JUST my case but I choose to negate/forfeit the mothers rights to my daughter.

    It was BETTER not to get her money then be FORCED to have her in our lives. Me and my daughter are better with out her money and having to deal with her.

    Now of course my situation isnt everyones but its an example of how changing the laws to be fair will not have any real world impact except to right an unfairness. Child welfare will not be impacted.
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  5. #75
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    My values are something like that. They don't utilize religion as any part of their basis, substituting Morality instead, but I'm not sure you can comprehend the difference there. Again, assuming that the ideals I seek never have existed and cannot in the human race, then we are no better than the Bubonic Plague and deserve nothing more than total extermination, like any other virus on this planet.




    It would be a damn sight better than what I deal with in society today.
    Per the morality in lieu of religion - we see eye to eye on that thing. I'm not religious but adhere to a moral living. . .I don't see that morality can and only does rely on religious beliefs.

    Per what your views rooted in European history have netted the world: all those views ever led to was expanding empires and overpowering all others who were 'in the way' of resources and riches - look at the history of WWI and WWII - it all started with their desire to expand and extort resources. Look at the situations that unfolded in African due to European infiltration - Slavery was a direct stem of this desire.

    So, no, what has accompanied your view throughout history has been toxic - at best - to everyone else that is deemed to be 'in the way'

    Which is evident even in your views you've stated here in this thread: those who hold views that are different than yours are immoral and wrong.
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  6. #76
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    So, no, what has accompanied your view throughout history has been toxic - at best - to everyone else that is deemed to be 'in the way'

    Which is evident even in your views you've stated here in this thread: those who hold views that are different than yours are immoral and wrong.
    Anyone who is standing in the way of what is Right should find themselves in a very "toxic" situation so far as I am concerned. That's simple reason and logic as I see it. To accept that Wrong exists and to attempt to do nothing about it is the height of insanity in my mind. Especially since those things which are Wrong generally multiply and expand themselves much more easily than those which are Right.

  7. #77
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Okay, Bod....

    If a woman chooses to keep her pregnancy and have a child against the man's wishes and she chooses to not use her legal option of birth control and have an abortion, should the man have to pay child support for her choice.Should the man have to pay Child Support if he does not want the child and the woman decides to not opt to have an abortion as a means of contraception?
    Then You go on and said...

    This thread is about a woman's choice subjugating a man to the role of a wallet for 18 years due to the whim of a woman's choice to keep a child against his wishes.


    This thread is not about a woman's right to choose.
    I want you to see that I know what the fundamental issue is in your post.

    Answer:

    (A) The issue of using the appropriate birth control isn't just the responsibility of the woman "ever". Birth Control can and does fail on its own without any tampering. Many a babies are conceived because of birth control failure.

    Even if the woman dupes a man by not taking birth control. Or even say she's damaged the condom on purpose. I seriously doubt she'd be jumping out of her pants to tell her guy she'd duped him into having a child. How's he to know?

    My question becomes: Why did the guy choose not to wear a condom? And especially if its a playmate or girlfriend with no intent to marry, or one night stand that swears she's on birth control. You know as well as I do - that women DUPING men for a baby, although not uncommon, is still the exception - not the rule. Doubling up on birth control never hurts, but men just take it for granted that if a woman is on the pill - all is safe and using rubbers suck.

    (B) If a man is Truly Pro-life - then abortion is out of the question for him anyway. Don't punish an unwanted child because he or she isn't wanted. Both are responsible for the child's support and welfare. And I'd really have to wonder why a Pro-life man is with a Pro-choice woman. Doesn't calculate for me.

    You go on and say....

    That being said, this thread is not about the law, but about what is right.
    Bod...WHO DETERMINES THE DEFINITION OF WHAT "RIGHT" IS? The word RIGHT is the most fought over word in the entire world. The word RIGHT causes more violence and damage than any other word I can think of. The word RIGHT destroys more relationships (of all kind) than any other word I can think of.

    The word RIGHT is incredibly abstract. If it weren't - then DP and all other forums would be out of business.

    BOD...if you are truly PRO-LIFE - Then why wouldn't you want to be liable for a child - even if you didn't want it? What's the baby to do - check itself in at the local orphanage? Maybe it needs to call up Child Protective Services and say - "Nobody wants to be responsible for me so come pick me up."

    Yep, you are going to hate it, but your stance brings me back to: "It doesn't matter what you want, how unfair you think it is, how much you think men are discriminated against - or even give you the privilege to ask "why do the man have to be liable"? In the end - LAWS determine what is RIGHT for everybody...not for just you or me. People have a real problem agreeing on what is RIGHT...or even it's meaning. Not everyone agrees with the law, but it doesn't matter what they agree with UNLESS they have the power to change them.

    If the baby pops out of the womb...then are both responsible, period.

    IF YOU WANNA PLAY...and it's discovered that you share DNA...then you PAY! Regardless of the circumstance!

    OH, and when it comes to married couples - your fate is written in concrete. Like it or not, no matter what you think is RIGHT - there are many laws to deal with pregnancy issues and babies.

  8. #78
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    So a woman can shirk responsibility via abortion, but a man can't?
    So all a man has to say is "you have to abort!" and then he's absolved of paying any support to the child when it's born?

  9. #79
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    So all a man has to say is "you have to abort!" and then he's absolved of paying any support to the child when it's born?
    yes thats the way it should be as long as its done in the same time frame of legal abortion and he gives up all parental rights.

    Thats whats fair, logical and nondiscriminatory.
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  10. #80
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    yes thats the way it should be as long as its done in the same time frame of legal abortion and he gives up all parental rights.

    Thats whats fair, logical and nondiscriminatory.
    It is none of those things. It isn't fair because the woman is the one who actually carries the child and for many people having an abortion is a major decision. It isn't as easy as a man flippantly signing a piece of paper eschewing responsibility for his offspring. It isn't logical because the whole purpose of child support is to ensure that the child is well-provided for financially, by both parents to the best of their abilities. It doesn't assess who is more at "fault" for the pregnancy occurring in the first place. And it's only non-discriminatory in the narrowest sense, because men already have the same abortion rights as women (i.e. if you get pregnant, you're just as free as a woman is to have an abortion).
    Last edited by Kandahar; 09-02-11 at 06:32 PM.
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