View Poll Results: Should the woman's choice dictate that the man has to pay child support?

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  • Should the woman be responsible for her own choice to not abort?

    16 37.21%
  • Should the man be forced to pay child support due to the choice of the woman?

    14 32.56%
  • Other option?

    13 30.23%
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Thread: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

  1. #51
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Because the child still needs to be supported. You seem to be viewing child support as a form of punishment that men have to pay to women, when in actuality it's just part of the cost of raising a child who had nothing to do with the choices that either parent made.
    The child needs to be supported, but the woman made the choice to keep it; not the man. Thus she should bear responsibility for that decision; not the man. Whether or not a child is born has no bearing on the desires or wishes of the man; it's 100% the woman. Thus she should be 100% responsible for the consequences.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  2. #52
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    My stances on this issue are:

    The woman should have sole control over the choice to terminate or continue the pregnancy because it is her body. It's unfair to a father who wishes to keep the child, but if they should have been aware of their sexual partners views prior to having sex with them. People forget that there is also the decision to sleep with a specific person involved here, not simply th echoice ot have sex. If you want to prevent a child of yours form ever being aborted, simply make teh choice not to sleep with any woman who would abort your child.

    As far as parental responsibility goes, I believe that both parents should have the option of relinquishing any and all parental responsibility, but only if done in a timely fashion once paternity/maternity of that child is established. for the woman, this would be shortly after birth. For the man, this would be shortly after he learns of the birth of his child. this means a woman can go through with a pregnancy, perhaps because the father wanted to keep the child, and absolve herself of parental rights and responsibilities in orderto give the child to the father if she wishes. And vice versa.

    However, if the person consents to retaining parental responsibility at that time, the only way that they should be allowed to relinquish that responsibility in the future is if both parents consent to place the child up for adoption. Neither should be allowed to skip out on the child and their other parent.

  3. #53
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Unfortunately there is very little the state can do to make people be more responsible parents (aside from cases of abuse/neglect). All the government can do is make them pay up, if they have money.
    But in some case they should not have to pay, thats the point of the OP.
    Also most times the government sucks at making them pay, unless of course again they want to pay and want to be real parents.
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The money goes to support the child. The government is merely the conduit through which this transaction occurs, and hardly qualifies as "taxation" any moreso than paying for your own child who lives with you qualifies as taxation.
    Well it's not like a direct tax from the government, but it's analogous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    He input his power cord into a woman's socket. Otherwise it wouldn't be an issue in the first place.
    This argument cuts both ways and is actually an argument against abortion in general. They BOTH made the choice for sex. That choice can result in pregnancy; but at that point the man is done. There is a new choice and that is to bring to term or kill the baby. That choice belongs 100% to the woman and overrides any "input" the man previously had. Now she chooses to have the kid, that's her choice and one she should be solely responsible for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    This abortion analogy is a red herring. If a woman has an abortion, then there is no child that needs to be supported. If she doesn't, then there is. So given that there is a child (i.e. there was no abortion), both parents are held responsible for it under common law. If both agree, the child could be put up for adoption, thus absolving them of responsibility. But if one wants to raise it, the other can and should be required to pay child support.
    But the man has no method by which he can independently remove responsibility; that is not true of the woman.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    It is his child and it needs to be supported, whether or not he wants the child. The child does not deserve to be financially punished because one or both of its parents made irresponsible choices.
    A child doesn't deserve to be killed for the convenience of one of the parents either; but we make common practice of it. What's one more thing?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  5. #55
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The child needs to be supported, but the woman made the choice to keep it; not the man.
    They were both responsible for creating the child. Abortion (or lack thereof) does not change that reality.

    Thus she should bear responsibility for that decision; not the man.
    Once again no thought is given to the actual interests of the CHILD, it's all about what stupid bitches women are for not having abortions.

    Whether or not a child is born has no bearing on the desires or wishes of the man; it's 100% the woman. Thus she should be 100% responsible for the consequences.
    This solution would instantly create millions of deadbeat dads disowning their children for their own financial gain, and contribute to the wealth disparity that already exists between men and women.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 09-02-11 at 01:33 PM.
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    My stances on this issue are:

    The woman should have sole control over the choice to terminate or continue the pregnancy because it is her body. It's unfair to a father who wishes to keep the child, but if they should have been aware of their sexual partners views prior to having sex with them. People forget that there is also the decision to sleep with a specific person involved here, not simply th echoice ot have sex. If you want to prevent a child of yours form ever being aborted, simply make teh choice not to sleep with any woman who would abort your child.

    As far as parental responsibility goes, I believe that both parents should have the option of relinquishing any and all parental responsibility, but only if done in a timely fashion once paternity/maternity of that child is established. for the woman, this would be shortly after birth. For the man, this would be shortly after he learns of the birth of his child. this means a woman can go through with a pregnancy, perhaps because the father wanted to keep the child, and absolve herself of parental rights and responsibilities in orderto give the child to the father if she wishes. And vice versa.

    However, if the person consents to retaining parental responsibility at that time, the only way that they should be allowed to relinquish that responsibility in the future is if both parents consent to place the child up for adoption. Neither should be allowed to skip out on the child and their other parent.
    if only I could like this a 1000000 times.
    this type of rational reality based common sense will go ignored by some
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    They were both responsible for creating the child. Abortion (or lack thereof) does not change that reality.
    No, but it changes dynamics. If one, why not the other? I mean, hell it's not even as bad as the other. If the man abdicates at worst the kid is poor. If the woman abdicates, the kid is dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Once again no thought is given to the actual interests of the CHILD, it's all about what stupid bitches women are for not having abortions.
    No thought is given to the actual interests of the CHILD in the abortion debate anyway. I'm not doing anything new. I'm just using the same logic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    This solution would instantly create millions of deadbeat dads disowning their children for their own financial gain.
    So? We already kill how many for the parents own financial gain? Abortion is killing for convenience, how is this anything worse?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    They were both responsible for creating the child. Abortion (or lack thereof) does not change that reality.



    Once again no thought is given to the actual interests of the CHILD, it's all about what stupid bitches women are for not having abortions.



    This solution would instantly create millions of deadbeat dads disowning their children for their own financial gain, and contribute to the wealth disparity that already exists between men and women.
    Actually the impact would be nil
    and nobody wants the option to be open at any given time, people want the option in the beginning.

    Remind me how many dead beat dads there are NOW with the laws? lol
    When a person WANTS to be a parent they will PERIOD, making them pay money doesnt STOP them from being a dead beat dad nor will allowing them not to.
    Last edited by AGENT J; 09-02-11 at 01:43 PM.
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Also to be clear on my stance:

    Im am 100% FOR making the laws more fair and removing the discrimination.

    Im also still 100% for pro-choice this is NOT an argument against abortion in any way what so ever for me.
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    My stances on this issue are:

    The woman should have sole control over the choice to terminate or continue the pregnancy because it is her body. It's unfair to a father who wishes to keep the child, but if they should have been aware of their sexual partners views prior to having sex with them. People forget that there is also the decision to sleep with a specific person involved here, not simply th echoice ot have sex. If you want to prevent a child of yours form ever being aborted, simply make teh choice not to sleep with any woman who would abort your child.

    As far as parental responsibility goes, I believe that both parents should have the option of relinquishing any and all parental responsibility, but only if done in a timely fashion once paternity/maternity of that child is established. for the woman, this would be shortly after birth. For the man, this would be shortly after he learns of the birth of his child. this means a woman can go through with a pregnancy, perhaps because the father wanted to keep the child, and absolve herself of parental rights and responsibilities in orderto give the child to the father if she wishes. And vice versa.

    However, if the person consents to retaining parental responsibility at that time, the only way that they should be allowed to relinquish that responsibility in the future is if both parents consent to place the child up for adoption. Neither should be allowed to skip out on the child and their other parent.
    I think that pretty much sums it up. Well put.

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