View Poll Results: Should the woman's choice dictate that the man has to pay child support?

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  • Should the woman be responsible for her own choice to not abort?

    16 37.21%
  • Should the man be forced to pay child support due to the choice of the woman?

    14 32.56%
  • Other option?

    13 30.23%
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Thread: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

  1. #221
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by RStringfield View Post
    What a wimpy response. You said...



    Now you are saying it does but due to some "butterfly effect" bull****, but that it should not matter? If a parent abandons their child that is going to have a direct and severe effect on the child.
    It directly refuted the logic behind your argument. Everything affects everything. What matters is if the child is supported, not if a parent abandons it. Your argument that abandoning the child affects it is pointless within the context OF THIS DEBATE. We are talking about child support... not abandoning the child. If you want to take a comment out of context and think that you have made a point, even after I just thrashed your point, then that is good on you mate.

    Bodhisattva said...

    In reality the child isnt effected by forced "child support" so that debate is pointless

    So... yep.
    Actually, he is smart enough to keep it in the proper context. That is why he made the comment that he did.

    Please. We should base laws on some stupid scenario that you have dreamed up and ignore the reality of how virtually all pregnancies occur?
    Women tricking guys or women getting pregnant for selfish reasons are "Stupid scenarios"? I think that you need to live a little, buddy. You sound REALLY naive.

    Again, a man's part in the reproductive process ends when he plants his seed. That is not even close to true for the woman. She has just begun and the sex act will seem grossly insignificant compared to the efforts that she will take to finish the pregnancy and bear a child. We can't make this equal by law. It is a fact of biology.

    Each and every individual has an equal right to control what part they take in reproduction. The fact that the man's role is pretty minor does not change the fact he has taken part in the process willingly and is therefore responsible for the result.
    I have found that people that turn the argument of child support and her choice around to one of reproduction and his role ending at ejaculation to be those of limited intellect.
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  2. #222
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    You have no argument. Pay your dues for your child, or keep the solution in your own hands.
    You simply don't understand the argument. That much is crystal clear.
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  3. #223
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by RStringfield View Post
    Bodhisattva said...

    In reality the child isnt effected by forced "child support" so that debate is pointless

    So... yep.
    actually "I" said that and that is NOTHING like you are saying LMAO
    so . . . NOPE

    TRYING top make a person pay child support doesn't stop them from abandoning them if they choose, it happens EVERY DAY

    so you are still wrong, nobody said what you are arguing and what you are arguing has nothing to do with child support
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  4. #224
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Man up? This isn't a battle... this is a legal construct designed by women and the feminist friendly courts that have magically given the woman ALL OF THE POWER hidden within the realistic point that she should have control over her own body, that's all. The two are not inter-connected by any biological fact. The whole argument has been twisted and twisted until everybody has been brainwashed into the idea that it is not politically correct to challenge the existing system. You are a dead beat dad if you do. You are a mysoginist if you do. You are a whiney man not being resonsible if you argue against it. It is all horse **** and those that can't at least question against the existing system are sheeple just but obtuse.
    LOL. Child support began in this country before women had the right to vote. The legal precedent and the laws that codified the principles were developed and passed by men, real men, not a bunch of wimps who want to run out on their responsibilities.

  5. #225
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    It directly refuted the logic behind your argument.
    What did? When you backed off of your previous point?

    Everything affects everything. What matters is if the child is supported, not if a parent abandons it. Your argument that abandoning the child affects it is pointless within the context OF THIS DEBATE. We are talking about child support... not abandoning the child. If you want to take a comment out of context and think that you have made a point, even after I just thrashed your point, then that is good on you mate.
    The effect is direct and severe. Your argument that everything effects everything is nonsense and not at all relevant. We are not talking about some indirect action that might cause a long chain of events that would inevitably lead to something bad happening to the child. We are talking about a direct causal relationship that has a very severe impact. Before child support developed as a legal precedent in this country nearly all divorced women and their children ended up in poverty.

    Actually, he is smart enough to keep it in the proper context. That is why he made the comment that he did.
    You said it had no effect. He said no one made such an argument. In what context could that even possibly be correct?

    Women tricking guys or women getting pregnant for selfish reasons are "Stupid scenarios"? I think that you need to live a little, buddy. You sound REALLY naive.
    And you sound like some scumbag little wimp who has abandoned his children. I don't think you want to turn this argument into ad homs. It's not going to go well for you.

    There is nothing in my argument that is naive at all. You don't write laws based on unlikely and highly unrealistic scenarios. If the man could somehow prove that he was tricked then he might have some legal grounds, but the burden of proving that would be on him.

    I have found that people that turn the argument of child support and her choice around to one of reproduction and his role ending at ejaculation to be those of limited intellect.
    This is not a valid argument. It is just more ad hom. Please show where my arguments indicate a lack of intellect, other than yours. All you have done is attack those that disagree and claim that some phantom argument you made disproves their points. You are the one turning the argument around. You continue to make it a battle between the man and woman while ignoring the child.

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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by RStringfield View Post
    You continue to make it a battle between the man and woman while ignoring the child.
    nope this is made up, nobody is doing this, its a bold face lie and an appeal to emotion.
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  7. #227
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by RStringfield View Post
    LOL. Child support began in this country before women had the right to vote. The legal precedent and the laws that codified the principles were developed and passed by men, real men, not a bunch of wimps who want to run out on their responsibilities.
    Actually it goes back 300-400 years. I am talking about Child Support as a legal construct within the parameters of the modern setting particularly post RvW. You can cast aspersions all you like, it only affirms that you don't understand the debate.

    What did? When you backed off of your previous point?
    I didn't back off. Read it again... and again if need be.

    The effect is direct and severe. Your argument that everything effects everything is nonsense and not at all relevant. We are not talking about some indirect action that might cause a long chain of events that would inevitably lead to something bad happening to the child. We are talking about a direct causal relationship that has a very severe impact. Before child support developed as a legal precedent in this country nearly all divorced women and their children ended up in poverty.
    What happened before child support is irrelevant.
    What impact the relationship has due to abandonment is irrelevant.
    All this affirms is that, again, you don't understand the point of the actual argument.

    You said it had no effect. He said no one made such an argument. In what context could that even possibly be correct?
    Within the context of child support being entirely dependent on her choice to not utilize birth control.

    And you sound like some scumbag little wimp who has abandoned his children. I don't think you want to turn this argument into ad homs. It's not going to go well for you.
    You don't want it to turn into an ad hom battle yet you throw out an ad hom? So you throw out insult (fight) and then hide behind a pathetic statement that you don't want to fight? What kind of sissy are you?

    I am a single father of two beautiful daughters that I have 50% custody of.

    I pay FAR more child support than the court mandated when assessing my salary because I wanted to help my crazy abusive ex-wife have the best opportunity to give our children the best when they are with her.

    I did not have her salary assesed at all, she pays me nothing in return.

    On top of child support to her, I pay for all school fees, all doctor visits, all surgery's, all sports teams fees, their martial arts, dance, guitar lessons, etc. I paid to have her car fixed. I paid her moving fees when she recently moved. I take days off of work to care for the girls when they are sick since I am on salary so that she does not lose her hourly wages.

    Anything else, Bonobo?

    There is nothing in my argument that is naive at all. You don't write laws based on unlikely and highly unrealistic scenarios. If the man could somehow prove that he was tricked then he might have some legal grounds, but the burden of proving that would be on him.
    I don't want laws based off of unlikely scenarios. I want laws that hold her responsible for her choice and not the other way around.

    This is not a valid argument. It is just more ad hom. Please show where my arguments indicate a lack of intellect, other than yours. All you have done is attack those that disagree and claim that some phantom argument you made disproves their points. You are the one turning the argument around. You continue to make it a battle between the man and woman while ignoring the child.
    If she has an abortion there is no child. She has a choice. When she chooses the child over birth control against his wishes, he is held accountable. This is sexist and ridiculous. If she does not want to support the child on her own, she can use birth control.

    Really now, this is not that hard to understand. It is fair and equitable to both the man and the woman. All that matters is that the child is supported. Who supports the child is irrelevant. That is why you abandon scenario is irrelevant as well and you argument that the child is affective is equally irrelevant. That is, unless you argue that no child should be given up for adoption? IF that is not the case, as I have already stated... Irrelevant.

    This is not a battle between a man and a woman. This is about making the woman responsible for her actions (ie Choice).

    I am not the only one that thinks so either...
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  8. #228
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by centrist77 View Post
    nope this is made up, nobody is doing this, its a bold face lie and an appeal to emotion.
    exactamundo!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
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  9. #229
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    If a man could absolve all responsibility with a simple gesture of saying "I don't want the baby - abort now", could he technically go on to impregnate one woman a week, and not have to pay for a single kid? Maybe two women a week? Three? Would the law impose some sort of limit?

    What's the man's incentive (besides STDs) for using protection at all?

    I'll tell you what the woman's incentive is; I don't want a baby growing inside of me for 9 months if I don't want one.

    Sperm is cheap, eggs are not.

  10. #230
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    If a man could absolve all responsibility with a simple gesture of saying "I don't want the baby - abort now", could he technically go on to impregnate one woman a week, and not have to pay for a single kid? Maybe two women a week? Three? Would the law impose some sort of limit?
    A man who does that should not be given the option of saying that he does not want to support his kid. Under my fair system he would lose all rights and have to pay the piper.

    I'll tell you what the woman's incentive is; I don't want a baby growing inside of me for 9 months if I don't want one.

    Sperm is cheap, eggs are not.
    Eggs are cheap... that is why they get flushed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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