View Poll Results: Should the woman's choice dictate that the man has to pay child support?

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  • Should the woman be responsible for her own choice to not abort?

    16 37.21%
  • Should the man be forced to pay child support due to the choice of the woman?

    14 32.56%
  • Other option?

    13 30.23%
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Thread: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

  1. #161
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    There is a way to arrive at a position of compromise which honors everyone's values.

    The woman gets to exercise her choice but she is ultimately responsible for that choice.
    The welfare of the minor child is not harmed by the actions of either of its parents.
    The man get to exercise his choice and EVENTUALLY he will have no net burden.
    All taxpayers EVENTUALLY become fiscally neutral in this personal issue between one man and one woman.

    -The pregnant women who violates her agreement to abortion has two choices upon giving birth, keep the baby or give it up for adoption. The man either agrees to adoption or not and if not then he's putting himself on the hook for future care.
    -The woman who decides to keep her baby either cares for it herself or she requires the man's assistance.
    -If she requires the man's assistance, then this starts a new process.

    -The man can ask the court to order this women to be placed on long-term birth control so that her future financial resources are not diverted towards future children. Her future financial resources must be dedicated towards caring for this child and relieving the man of his compulsory contribution to a choice he rejected. Her debt to this man must be wiped clean before she can have another child and she must satisfy the court that she will not face foreseeable financial troubles and therefore have to once again compel this man to pay for a child he didn't consent to.

    - If the man is unable to pay then the state has to kick in and provide welfare. If the man can pay then he has to step up before we involve the state, for if there is a balancing of justice, the State is more innocent than the man for the man actually played a part in conceiving the child.

    -After the child turns 18, all of the child support that the man was forced to pay against his will and all of the welfare that state was forced to pay, is billed to the mother and she is now held accountable for her decision 18 years prior. She went back on her word and had a child against her promise to abort. The court grants a judgement against the women and she has to pay her debts to the man and to the State until the debts are paid off.

    In the end:

    -The welfare of the child is protected while the child is growing up.
    -The woman is held responsible for her decisions.
    -The man is eventually made whole by repayment of principal and interest for child support payments that were forced on him against his will.
    -The taxpayers are eventually made whole by repayment of principal and interest for welfare payments that were forced on then against their will.
    Sorry but that still gives the woman too much responsibility and the man too little

    The only real way to make it a level playing field is to insist on male contraception - if the man was not using contraception then he has to pay simple as that

    PS personally I think the answer would be to create a reversible vasectomy and sterilise all young men before the age of about 14 - that way there would BE no "unwanted pregnancies"
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  2. #162
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by bowerbird View Post
    Sorry but that still gives the woman too much responsibility and the man too little
    That's because it is the woman who is breaking the understanding. Implicit to my scenario is that there was an agreement between the man and the woman that if a pregnancy developed that the woman would get an abortion. When the women changes her mind after the fact, that's when the problems start. In any other situation there is no problem - if the man and the woman both agreed to go through with the pregnancy from the outset and the man changes his mind after the fact, then tough luck for him.

    PS personally I think the answer would be to create a reversible vasectomy and sterilise all young men before the age of about 14 - that way there would BE no "unwanted pregnancies"
    Get back to me when this procedure is perfected.

  3. #163
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    What is unequal about both parents having to care for their child?
    Wait, you just said that this was about biology. Now you are talking about laws. Which is it?
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  4. #164
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by bowerbird View Post
    Sorry but that still gives the woman too much responsibility and the man too little

    The only real way to make it a level playing field is to insist on male contraception - if the man was not using contraception then he has to pay simple as that

    PS personally I think the answer would be to create a reversible vasectomy and sterilise all young men before the age of about 14 - that way there would BE no "unwanted pregnancies"
    So the woman gets all the power just because a couple of solutions offer the man perhaps more than 50% or the power? Is that right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  5. #165
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    So the woman gets all the power just because a couple of solutions offer the man perhaps more than 50% or the power? Is that right?

    I kind of think of it like a guy throwing a bomb into a store. Once he chooses to throw it, whatever happens next is out of his hands, as it's now the people inside the store that must decide whether or not they will disarm the bomb or let it explode.

    I have no sympathy for a guy who chooses to pass along his semen to a female, then whines when she gets pregnant and decides not to have an abortion.

    No sympathy.

    Men - if you don't want kids, don't give your semen to females.

  6. #166
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Wait, you just said that this was about biology. Now you are talking about laws. Which is it?
    What I said was that you are confusing biology and the law.
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  7. #167
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    I kind of think of it like a guy throwing a bomb into a store. Once he chooses to throw it, whatever happens next is out of his hands, as it's now the people inside the store that must decide whether or not they will disarm the bomb or let it explode.

    I have no sympathy for a guy who chooses to pass along his semen to a female, then whines when she gets pregnant and decides not to have an abortion.

    No sympathy.

    Men - if you don't want kids, don't give your semen to females.
    That is the basic scenario, yes. What of the other times though... when the woman tricks her partner or gets a guy purposely drunk or pricks wholes in the condom? What then? Screw him?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  8. #168
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    What I said was that you are confusing biology and the law.
    I understand that. I explained how I am not confusing biology with the law.

    Regarding what you just said though... what is unequal is that everything, including his wallet, hinges on HER "choice". Biology has nothing to do with a law that forces him to pay for her choice. Nobody seems to be able to adequately address that either... i just keep getting bomb analogies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  9. #169
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I understand that. I explained how I am not confusing biology with the law.

    Regarding what you just said though... what is unequal is that everything, including his wallet, hinges on HER "choice". Biology has nothing to do with a law that forces him to pay for her choice. Nobody seems to be able to adequately address that either... i just keep getting bomb analogies.
    And your solution is what? I get that you object to men being subjected to a woman's veto on this issue, that we put our balls on the chopping block and she gets to decide our fate, but what is the alternative?

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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    That is the basic scenario, yes. What of the other times though... when the woman tricks her partner or gets a guy purposely drunk or pricks wholes in the condom? What then? Screw him?
    Who are all these crazy condom-pricking females anyways? Easy solution is for the man to simply buy his own condoms. I say it is his job to make sure what he's putting on is not defective, as it's his semen that needs to be blocked, right?

    Also, regarding the alcohol, I'd say the guy is 100% in charge of himself and should have said no to the booze. If the guy gets in a drunk driving accident afterwards is it still the woman's fault?

    Maybe if the woman drugs the man, ties him up in her basement, and then proceeds to have sex with him against his will and conceives, I will consider your 50/50 scenario with the child support.

    But until that happens, I don't think the man should have a choice once he gives away his semen away...
    Last edited by David D.; 09-12-11 at 02:20 AM.

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