View Poll Results: Should the woman's choice dictate that the man has to pay child support?

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  • Should the woman be responsible for her own choice to not abort?

    16 37.21%
  • Should the man be forced to pay child support due to the choice of the woman?

    14 32.56%
  • Other option?

    13 30.23%
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Thread: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

  1. #151
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Coming from a child who has lived on child support, I will just say a few words on this subject. Nothing makes a child feel unwanted than to know they are percentage of an ex-parents paycheck. You feel like your just a bill for them to pay, (which sometimes they skip a payment from time to time). Whether or not it is up to the woman to carry the child for the man to raise it, or a woman decides to keep a child and the man wants nothing to do with the situation. Plus a few other variations of custody and abortion. I would have to say it would depend on the individual situation in which this child was created. I would also like to end on a sad note. Some women feel bad later on in life after the abortion.
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  2. #152
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by stsburns View Post
    Coming from a child who has lived on child support, I will just say a few words on this subject. Nothing makes a child feel unwanted than to know they are percentage of an ex-parents paycheck. You feel like your just a bill for them to pay, (which sometimes they skip a payment from time to time). Whether or not it is up to the woman to carry the child for the man to raise it, or a woman decides to keep a child and the man wants nothing to do with the situation. Plus a few other variations of custody and abortion. I would have to say it would depend on the individual situation in which this child was created. I would also like to end on a sad note. Some women feel bad later on in life after the abortion.
    Would you have felt better as child if you didn't have enough to eat or sufficient clothing to wear? Some women and men feel bad later on in life after having children. It is human nature to wonder how life would have been had you taken the other path.
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  3. #153
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You are confusion biology with law.
    Not really... they are linked in this argument. The laws are based off of biology, yes. There is nothing biological about a father having to care for the child though, that is the unequal aspect that many seem to gloss over or ignore completely.

    Originally Posted by Kandahar
    At a certain point it's just a waste of time to continue trying to reason with idiots who just ignore any points. It's like wrestling with a pig: You both get dirty, and the pig enjoys it.
    Cordial as usual.

    I just nailed you on a point and you completely ignored it... contradictory to the core. Well done...

    Originally Posted by SheWolf
    Bodhisattva, seriously... why do you keep asking this question over and over again?
    It is the theme of my day! It is a good argument and nobody can seem to refute it. Many people create Straw Men or use Ad Homs, but nobody has really actually addressed teh argument and pointed out that it is not about her choice. Just interesting...
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  4. #154
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Cordial as usual.

    I just nailed you on a point and you completely ignored it... contradictory to the core. Well done...
    I'd hardly calling it "nailing me on a point" to re-post the same talking points you've posted in this entire thread. In your mind it's still always about the adults, and who gives a **** about the child. The ho should've kept her legs closed and/or committed an act she might regard as tantamount to murder (or at least some lesser immoral act). If she doesn't, well, then both the dumb bitch and the child deserve to be punished by making her pay the full cost of raising the kid she was only 50% responsible for creating.

    But yeah, I think I'm done with this thread entirely unless someone posts something new and/or insightful. Just reading these posts is making me mad, and I don't really need it.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 09-11-11 at 07:09 PM.
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  5. #155
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Ive really been thinking about this...whats the right answer and to be honest im not sure...I cant take a side set in stone...what I do know is that no matter what any of you think or like about it....the law says the guy pays.
    If the guy didnt have to pay....we all pay for him taking part in creating a child.

  6. #156
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I'd hardly calling it "nailing me on a point" to re-post the same talking points you've posted in this entire thread.
    Ok

    In your mind it's still always about the adults, and who gives a **** about the child.
    This is just another Appeal to Emotion and doesn't address any points that I am making about Child Support, which are logically based.

    The ho should've kept her legs closed and/or committed an act she might regard as tantamount to murder (or at least some lesser immoral act).
    As to the first? I have not once uttered anything as callous as that.
    As to the second? I addressed this and said that I seriously doubt that any person that thinks that abortion is murder is having casual sex with people outside of a serious relationship. You simply keep ignoring that part...

    If she doesn't, well, then both the dumb bitch and the child deserve to be punished by making her pay the full cost of raising the kid she was only 50% responsible for creating.
    Dang, you are showing FAR more disrespect towards women than I ever have.
    I understand you are trying to encapsulate my argument, but all you are doing is showing that you LITERALLY have no idea what my argument is.

    But yeah, I think I'm done with this thread entirely unless someone posts something new and/or insightful. Just reading these posts is making me mad, and I don't really need it.
    Fine... but in a competitive debate capacity, you have lost. Bye.
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  7. #157
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    There is a way to arrive at a position of compromise which honors everyone's values.

    The woman gets to exercise her choice but she is ultimately responsible for that choice.
    The welfare of the minor child is not harmed by the actions of either of its parents.
    The man get to exercise his choice and EVENTUALLY he will have no net burden.
    All taxpayers EVENTUALLY become fiscally neutral in this personal issue between one man and one woman.

    -The pregnant women who violates her agreement to abortion has two choices upon giving birth, keep the baby or give it up for adoption. The man either agrees to adoption or not and if not then he's putting himself on the hook for future care.
    -The woman who decides to keep her baby either cares for it herself or she requires the man's assistance.
    -If she requires the man's assistance, then this starts a new process.

    -The man can ask the court to order this women to be placed on long-term birth control so that her future financial resources are not diverted towards future children. Her future financial resources must be dedicated towards caring for this child and relieving the man of his compulsory contribution to a choice he rejected. Her debt to this man must be wiped clean before she can have another child and she must satisfy the court that she will not face foreseeable financial troubles and therefore have to once again compel this man to pay for a child he didn't consent to.

    - If the man is unable to pay then the state has to kick in and provide welfare. If the man can pay then he has to step up before we involve the state, for if there is a balancing of justice, the State is more innocent than the man for the man actually played a part in conceiving the child.

    -After the child turns 18, all of the child support that the man was forced to pay against his will and all of the welfare that state was forced to pay, is billed to the mother and she is now held accountable for her decision 18 years prior. She went back on her word and had a child against her promise to abort. The court grants a judgement against the women and she has to pay her debts to the man and to the State until the debts are paid off.

    In the end:

    -The welfare of the child is protected while the child is growing up.
    -The woman is held responsible for her decisions.
    -The man is eventually made whole by repayment of principal and interest for child support payments that were forced on him against his will.
    -The taxpayers are eventually made whole by repayment of principal and interest for welfare payments that were forced on then against their will.

  8. #158
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Not really... they are linked in this argument. The laws are based off of biology, yes. There is nothing biological about a father having to care for the child though, that is the unequal aspect that many seem to gloss over or ignore completely.
    What is unequal about both parents having to care for their child?
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  9. #159
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by RStringfield View Post
    No. I am not going to search the thread for where you think you refuted these points. You have not. If a parent abandons their child it will effect the child. There is no disputing that.
    Did somebody argue that parents abandoning a child has no effect?
    nope

    LMAO
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenvilleGrows View Post
    What if the woman forces the man to have sex with her? Then, can he choose abortion over her will?

    I find it interesting that many of the supporters for the woman's choice in the discussion feel like the man made his decision and took the responsibility when he chose to have sex. I agree (use a condom, dummy). But, what is it that makes people think the man should be accountable for his actions/decision in taking care of the conceived child, but not the woman? Why shouldn't the woman be equally responsible for her decision to have sex (use the pill/diaphragm, dummy) in taking care of the conceived child. Why does she get to say "kill it" but he doesn't get equal say?

    If the right to choose is going to be legal, I think either party should have the right to defend the life of the child if they want to keep it and the other party should pay to support it, too. If one of them wants to kill it, I go back to "too bad", you should have thought of that earlier. Killing for convenience doesn't make any sense.
    2 things

    1.) I would NEVER say anybody has the right to force a women to give birth, ever. There is no rational I can defend to support that. I agree it probably has happened and sucks for the guy who wants the baby and the girl doesnt and gets an abortion but theres nothing law wise I feel would ever be rational or logical.

    2.) "Killing for convenience" is just what your opinion of it is, many disagree.
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