View Poll Results: Should the woman's choice dictate that the man has to pay child support?

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  • Should the woman be responsible for her own choice to not abort?

    16 37.21%
  • Should the man be forced to pay child support due to the choice of the woman?

    14 32.56%
  • Other option?

    13 30.23%
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Thread: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

  1. #111
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    How about the one most affected by a decision, the baby in the womb....?
    Its a very imperfect world, we are progressing in a painfully slow manner.....The woman's choice, IMO, should trump the man's......and both should hear the baby.....

  2. #112
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

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    If we are dealing with a man, then he should pay 50%
    If a child, the 100%.
    JMO.

  3. #113
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Here, I'll make this real simple, since you continue to ignore basic mathematical/logical realities as "appeals to emotion" or some other such nonsense. I'll make a timeline for you:

    AT CONCEPTION - At this moment, both parents have incurred a financial liability to care for their offspring from that moment until its 18th birthday or its death. If their incomes are equal, the liability will generally be 50-50. It may be skewed differently if the incomes are different or if there are other circumstances, but that's a separate discussion. It's true that the courts generally will not *order* the man to pay child support at this early stage (simply because no paternity tests can be conducted), but in most states he is legally on the hook for it from this point forward and can be retroactively charged half the costs of maternity care.

    DURING PREGNANCY - The woman may choose to have an abortion if she wants to, or she may choose to have the kid. Her body, her choice. Neither parent can simply choose to disavow responsibility for their future child. The woman cannot carry the child to term and then force the man to bear 100% of the costs, any more than the man can disown HIS responsibility and force the woman to bear 100% of the costs. In other words, neither parent can unilaterally make a decision that makes the other parent worse off financially. Abortion doesn't do this; if the woman has an abortion, BOTH parents will pay approximately 0% of the cost of raising a kid to adulthood. The same cannot be said of one parent simply disowning responsibility and sticking the other with the full bill.

    AT BIRTH - Both parents are responsible for some amount of financial liability (whatever the courts have determined is "fair" based on their incomes). Again, neither parent can unilaterally run away from their responsibilities which will leave the other parent and the child in a worse financial position. It ceases to be about who was more at "fault" for the child's birth (actually it never was about that); there is a child who needs to be supported, and common law indicates that that support comes from the biological parents in most circumstances. If both parents agree, the child can be put up for adoption.
    translation: punish the man no matter what and who cares about equal and fair rights.

    Thanks but no thanks, the law needs changed.

    The man should have the option to not claim the child in the same time frame as the abortion time frame. He then gives up all parental rights and is not financially responsible.

    The women always has the right to abort, this I would never change.

    "IF" the woman chooses she may also give up her rights to the child if she thinks she can actually carry the child and give it to the father if thats what he and she wants.

    and also continue adoption which is already in place.

    Thats whats fair and just.
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  4. #114
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Watching you ignore the fact that a man disavowing responsibility (which would result in a 0-100 split in child support payments) is not the same as a woman having an abortion (which would result in a 0-0 split in child support payments) is comical. Abortion makes them both BETTER off financially; disavowing responsibility makes the deadbeat dad better off and the mother worse off. Oh, and in the latter scenario there's a kid who is worse off than if both parents supported him.



    I already posted these basic mathematical facts, and rather than respond to it you said "zomg emotion." Here it is again for your convenience. An economic example of how these decisions would actually play out. Assuming equal incomes and a 50-50 split in child support for simplicity, but the numbers can be adjusted and the point still stands.

    Woman chooses to have an abortion: Man pays 0%, woman pays 0% (of the cost of raising the child to adulthood)
    Woman chooses not to have an abortion: Man pays 50%, woman pays 50%

    Man chooses to disavow responsibility: Man pays 0%, woman pays 100%
    Man chooses to take responsibility: Man pays 50%, woman pays 50%

    Of these four decisions, only the one you are advocating results in an unequal distribution in the burden of child support. In other words, the man is able to burden the woman with his share, but the woman is not able to do the same to him. Abortion is not the same as what you are advocating, and to call these laws "sexist" for keeping the burden on BOTH parents is bull****, when you are advocating an unequal distribution in child support costs in the man's favor (for parents in equal financial situations).

    And again there is an actual CHILD who is harmed if a parent unilaterally disavows financial responsibility for it. That isn't the case if the mother unilaterally decides to have an abortion; there is no child who needs child support then.
    funny you leave out, women decides to abort and make gets to make no choice LOL
    its not just about MONEY lol

    also the child is not harmed in reality.
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    How about the one most affected by a decision, the baby in the womb....?
    Its a very imperfect world, we are progressing in a painfully slow manner.....The woman's choice, IMO, should trump the man's......and both should hear the baby.....
    I bolded that because thats the reality
    in a perfect world yes make them both pay because in a perfect world making them both pay money would fix everything and by making them pay that would also make them good parents

    well we all know thats NOT true unfortunately

    making them pay wont make them good parents so the effect is just about nil in reality.

    TO be clear Im not accusing you of saying things would be perfect earthworm, I just quoted you because your wording was good for my point
    make the law as fair and equal as possible. the only inequality that should exist is Id never take away the mothers right to abort.
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  6. #116
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Sorry....but the man should have ZERO say in it. He is not the one that carries the fetus. This is a woman's choice and a woman's choice only.
    The human race requires two genders to procreate (no doubt news to you), and therefore both should have equal rights in society governing procreation. You are condoning the notion that a man has no inherent right to procreate and that a woman does.
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  7. #117
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    translation: punish the man no matter what and who cares about equal and fair rights.

    Thanks but no thanks, the law needs changed.

    The man should have the option to not claim the child in the same time frame as the abortion time frame. He then gives up all parental rights and is not financially responsible.

    The women always has the right to abort, this I would never change.

    "IF" the woman chooses she may also give up her rights to the child if she thinks she can actually carry the child and give it to the father if thats what he and she wants.

    and also continue adoption which is already in place.

    Thats whats fair and just.
    So the woman should only be able to stick the father with HER share of the cost if "that's what he and she want." But the man should be able to unilaterally do this.
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  8. #118
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    funny you leave out, women decides to abort and make gets to make no choice LOL
    its not just about MONEY lol
    Child support payments are indeed about money. Try again.
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  9. #119
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    So the woman should only be able to stick the father with HER share of the cost if "that's what he and she want." But the man should be able to unilaterally do this.
    I have no idea what you are talking about.
    I never said anything of the sort LOL
    Please though feel free to ASK me a questions instead of guessing and assuming WRONG you might get more accomplished LMAO
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Child support payments are indeed about money. Try again.
    we are talkin about responsibility and "the child" which YOU bring up so often LMAO

    YOU brought up the child countless times, could you be anymore dishonest.

    No its not all about money when talking about responsibility and the child and fairness



    The issues here are whats fair and trying to make things equal, others have brought up responsibility and the child. SOrry money is just ONE of the issues LMAO

    Try again, this time based on REALITY LMAO
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