View Poll Results: Should the woman's choice dictate that the man has to pay child support?

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  • Should the woman be responsible for her own choice to not abort?

    16 37.21%
  • Should the man be forced to pay child support due to the choice of the woman?

    14 32.56%
  • Other option?

    13 30.23%
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Thread: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

  1. #91
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    I lol'd.

    Rohypnol can get expensive. I was thinking a little Drano in her Hawaiian Punch. But then I gotta talk to the police and all that crap...

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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    Your scenario would basically mean that any male who wishes not to be a father would could just sign a paper saying "I asked her to abort, so now I don't have to provide any support for the child". Seems too easy. What kind of effect do you think this would have on low income areas?.
    It would have to be under the same time frame as choosing to abort of course, it couldn't be 5 years later. And it would have the same effect it has on them now when the women has a baby against the mans wishes. So this might make some people more responsible, SOME, a low a mount probably but at least the law is now fair.

    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    Men could impregnate as many women as they could possibly want because they would have absolutely NO consequence for doing so. What's to stop them from doing this? What would be their incentive for even using birth control?
    WOMEN can do this NOW, they can say they are on the pill, shot etc or say they cant get pregnant or simply not stop when its time. This happens NOW. And in reality some men do this now also. It would give BOTH parties EQUAL/FAIR incentive is what it would do.

    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    This is not an equal rights situation because each person isn't affected equally by the pregnancy, and again comes down to our biological differences.
    actually I think it is and your argument has no impact on that. What if I dont want to hire women because they get periods and they might take maternity leave? can I do that? nope because it violates their equal rights no matter there biological differences. Try again




    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    Physical difference is not meaningless. It's much easier for a man to opt out than a woman because essentially the woman has to make the final choice as to whether or not she is going to assassinate and flush out the growing fetus inside of her. This is a much more difficult decision than just signing some piece of paper. Your system puts all of the heavy burden on the female, which is not fair.
    no it puts EQUAL burden on them both.
    The current system makes it an easier burden on the female because after she makes her choice the man is stuck and because he is stuck it could effect her choice. Currently she gets to make the choice FOR THE MAN and FORCE HIM. The way I want to make it is that its a SELF CHOICE.

    And actually the guy can still get screwed if he wants the kid and she doesnt BUT I would never even dream of forcing a women to carry a child she didnt want that is just asinine. THAT is the one unfairness I can live with due to biological circumstances.

    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    Once conception has taken place, I believe the man is now along for the ride.
    and thats what is GREATLY unfair and discriminating, he gets no choice and has no power, thats plain wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    If he's scared about whether or not she's taken her pill, then use a freakin' condom. And if you think the condom has been tampered with, go and buy your own. That simple.
    condoms break, they fail, hell in extremely rare cases sperm has been removed from a condom and used to trap a guy.

    so NO its not "that simple"
    reality is never that simple especially when dealing with fair or not.
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    One more thing.

    How about we make it completely fair;

    The man can say that he wishes not to have to pay child support and that's fine. On the same token, the female can opt out from having to support the child as well, and that's fine too.

    As for the abortion, that's a different topic. What happens to the baby after it's born?
    it can never be "completely fair" that part I get. Women can and should be allowed to abort and I would never force them otherwise thats just wrong on so many levels.

    but as far as your scenario THAT can happen now. Women are free to give up thier babies for adoption if thats what they choose.
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    She has the right to make it 0% hers before it gets to that point. I don't.

    That needs to change.
    As Tucker Points out you can always perform an adhoc abortion against her will.

    On a serious note, why do you think a man is not allowed to force a woman to have an abortion?





    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    It would have to be under the same time frame as choosing to abort of course, it couldn't be 5 years later. And it would have the same effect it has on them now when the women has a baby against the mans wishes. So this might make some people more responsible, SOME, a low a mount probably but at least the law is now fair.
    About the timeline – definitely. And true, a lot of dead beat fathers out there either way. Guess now they can be legal deadbeats.



    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    WOMEN can do this NOW, they can say they are on the pill, shot etc or say they cant get pregnant or simply not stop when its time. This happens NOW. And in reality some men do this now also. It would give BOTH parties EQUAL/FAIR incentive is what it would do.
    There’s a difference. Simply speaking – in the context of reproduction - men are ‘givers’ and women are ‘takers’.

    Think of how society treats promiscuous men and promiscuous women differently.




    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    actually I think it is and your argument has no impact on that. What if I dont want to hire women because they get periods and they might take maternity leave? can I do that? nope because it violates their equal rights no matter there biological differences. Try again
    I was speaking on biological differences as it relates directly to the primary act of having a baby and reproduction, not the ‘secondary’ effect the biological differences have as in the example you bring up.


    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    no it puts EQUAL burden on them both.
    The current system makes it an easier burden on the female because after she makes her choice the man is stuck and because he is stuck it could effect her choice. Currently she gets to make the choice FOR THE MAN and FORCE HIM. The way I want to make it is that its a SELF CHOICE.

    And actually the guy can still get screwed if he wants the kid and she doesnt BUT I would never even dream of forcing a women to carry a child she didnt want that is just asinine. THAT is the one unfairness I can live with due to biological circumstances.
    Again, men are the givers and women are the receivers when it comes to sex. If a man chooses to ‘give it’ to a female (sorry, not my intention to be crude with this statement), he better be wholly ready for any consequences that may result after that point, in my opinion.

    Also, burden =/=.

    Under your idea man chooses yes/no to having to care for child.

    Women choses yes/no to killing her child.

    Women seems to have a much more significant decision to make.










    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    it can never be "completely fair" that part I get. Women can and should be allowed to abort and I would never force them otherwise thats just wrong on so many levels.

    but as far as your scenario THAT can happen now. Women are free to give up thier babies for adoption if thats what they choose.
    Sure, I can dig the adoption thing, but only if the man has to pay his share of all associated costs?

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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    About the timeline – definitely. And true, a lot of dead beat fathers out there either way. Guess now they can be legal deadbeats.
    they wouldnt be legal anything they wouldnt be fathers at all, the people that want this to happen want them to give up all legal rights in that same time frame.

    but currently the women that do this are legal con artists, thieves, and extortionist





    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    There’s a difference. Simply speaking – in the context of reproduction - men are ‘givers’ and women are ‘takers’.

    Think of how society treats promiscuous men and promiscuous women differently.
    so basically two wrongs make a right? no thanks
    women shouldnt be treated that way thats all, also on a side note its more so other WOMEN that treat them that way then men.






    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    I was speaking on biological differences as it relates directly to the primary act of having a baby and reproduction, not the ‘secondary’ effect the biological differences have as in the example you bring up.
    doesnt really matter does it? you said biological isnt a factor in equal rights, thats wrong.




    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    Again, men are the givers and women are the receivers when it comes to sex. If a man chooses to ‘give it’ to a female (sorry, not my intention to be crude with this statement), he better be wholly ready for any consequences that may result after that point, in my opinion.

    Also, burden =/=.

    Under your idea man chooses yes/no to having to care for child.

    Women choses yes/no to killing her child.

    Women seems to have a much more significant decision to make.
    this is an appeal to emotion that I dont buy
    one its only your opinion that they may view it as "killing HER child" lol nice touch though

    they both share it because it changes thier lives for ever financially and responsibility wise.
    Plese do not imply that they man is ONLY agree to support a child and thats SO easy, I think you are smarted than that and NO im not being sarcastic. Im being honest and Im not buying that down play.








    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    Sure, I can dig the adoption thing, but only if the man has to pay his share of all associated costs?
    not sure I agree with this and what are the standard costs, if it small than fine if its substantial then no.

    SHE choose to HAVE the baby and give it up for adoption, He choose to not have the baby and give up all his parental rights in the abortion time frame. Thats her choice.
    Last edited by AGENT J; 09-07-11 at 05:14 PM.
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    one its only your opinion that they may view it as "killing HER child" lol nice touch though
    Thanks.

    Centrist, to be honest, this is an issue I don’t care that much about because it is likely to affect me very little given that I am almost married (next month) and have been with a single female partner for many years now.

    I will just close by saying I don’t think we are going to ever agree on this, and again I think that when it comes to reproduction men “give” and females “receive” and the man has total control up to the point he decides to “give”, which afterwards nature takes over and there’s nothing you can do from there.

    End abortion. That would put a close to this topic.

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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    Thanks.

    Centrist, to be honest, this is an issue I don’t care that much about because it is likely to affect me very little given that I am almost married (next month) and have been with a single female partner for many years now.

    I will just close by saying I don’t think we are going to ever agree on this, and again I think that when it comes to reproduction men “give” and females “receive” and the man has total control up to the point he decides to “give”, which afterwards nature takes over and there’s nothing you can do from there.

    End abortion. That would put a close to this topic.
    no problem, you kept the debate civil, didnt attack even when confronted with friendly sarcasm ( seems a lot of people cant emotionally deal with that)

    for that I think you are a good poster whether we agree or not

    as for abortion? that freedom will still happen with or without government allowing it and I would NEVER want abortions stopped. I could never force a women to give birth beyond her wishes.

    Good talking to you
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    Good talking to you
    Likewise.

    And although I agree abortions will always continue to occur, illegal or not, they will be much less frequent in the United States if it were to be illegal.

    I think thereís got to be women out there that despite wanting an abortion, they donít feel comfortable recruiting some black market abortion doctor on Craigslist and meeting him/her at his underground lair or something like that.

    Take it easy, Centrist77.

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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    Likewise.

    And although I agree abortions will always continue to occur, illegal or not, they will be much less frequent in the United States if it were to be illegal.

    I think there’s got to be women out there that despite wanting an abortion, they don’t feel comfortable recruiting some black market abortion doctor on Craigslist and meeting him/her at his underground lair or something like that.

    Take it easy, Centrist77.
    Craigslist rules!
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    Re: Should Woman's Choice Trump the Man's??

    Quote Originally Posted by David D
    On a serious note, why do you think a man is not allowed to force a woman to have an abortion?
    I'm not saying force a woman to have an abortion. I'm saying allow a man to absolve himself of responsibility should he declare his intentions. A woman is allowed to do that via abortion. A man can do it via contract.

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