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Thread: Child Support Payments

  1. #61
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Do you mean that the money he gives is misused by the mother? Possibly, but the answer to that is increased supervision by the state, not letting the father off free.

    Resources have to be devoted to raising children, and if the mother can't provide them all, those resources have to come from somewhere; we can't let children starve to death. Aside from being terrible in and of itself, that kind of inhumanity risks developing the sort of moral and political culture that gives rise to dystopian societies. While all of the society has to chip into welfare funds to prevent that from happening, it can hardly be fair for them to pay the lord's share for something they got no recreational benefit out of (that is, the father at least got sex out of it, whereas the tax payers did not).
    thats part of it but I mean his money really doesnt mean ****.
    There are kids that have TWO very wealthy parents and still get abused, neglected, poor educations etc etc etc

    The money is pretty meaningless in reality.

    Its nice to appeal to emotion but nobody is talking about "children starving to death" which happens NOW by the way with the dads forced to pay money.

    Sorry but theres nothing logical IM buying yet, its all be emotional rhetoric IMO and nothing reality based.

    These things you talk of happen now, nothing would really change and making the laws more equal would worsen the problem IMO.

    Now that doesnt mean we cant IMPROVE the issues you are talking about but IMO its a totally different debate.
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  2. #62
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathematician View Post
    I love how one minute women are fighting for equal treatment of the sexes and the next minute they are fighting against it. Please make your choice and stick with it.
    yes it is pretty funny but you should definitely put the word SOME women because ALL are certainly not like that.
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  3. #63
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathematician View Post
    Will you quit this crap about the "you should have thought about that before you gave a woman your sperm"? I could just as easily say that if she didn't want to get pregnant then she shouldn't have spread her legs! I'm arguing that if either biological parent wants the child then the kid should be born. Ideally, I think abortion should only be done if both parents consent. Otherwise, the child is born and both parents should be responsible for the child. However, if women are going to insist on having all the rights then you can deal with the deadbeat dads.

    Just for the record, I was raised strictly by my mother because my father didn't take responsibility. Hence, I have more passion about being a dad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Supporting children has nothing to do with equal treatment of the sexes. Whether or not men deserve legal input on abortion is separate from whether parents ought to support their children. Even if men are being denied a right that should belong to them, children deserve that support.
    You can check my post and see that I agree. The only thing leading to me arguing against it is women wanting full rights to decide the unborn child's fate. Sorry this thread has been slightly diverted, but it's hard two separate these two issues.
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    yes it is pretty funny but you should definitely put the word SOME women because ALL are certainly not like that.
    You're right, good catch.
    "With me everything turns into mathematics."
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  5. #65
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    thats part of it but I mean his money really doesnt mean ****.
    There are kids that have TWO very wealthy parents and still get abused, neglected, poor educations etc etc etc

    The money is pretty meaningless in reality.

    Its nice to appeal to emotion but nobody is talking about "children starving to death" which happens NOW by the way with the dads forced to pay money.

    Sorry but theres nothing logical IM buying yet, its all be emotional rhetoric IMO and nothing reality based.

    These things you talk of happen now, nothing would really change and making the laws more equal would worsen the problem IMO.

    Now that doesnt mean we cant IMPROVE the issues you are talking about but IMO its a totally different debate.
    That's just bizarre to me. Having substantially less money doesn't affect the child's life at all?

    In a way it seems as though you are bordering on a 'spiritually enlightened' critique of materialism, as in, material things won't make a profound difference in a child's life when spiritual things are lacking. While love and attention are more important than material things, children still need clothing, food, medical attention, and tools for the occupations appropriate to their age. If the mother can't afford them, somebody else has to. Should the tax payers cover all the difference, or should the biological father pay some as well?

    You can check my post and see that I agree. The only thing leading to me arguing against it is women wanting full rights to decide the unborn child's fate. Sorry this thread has been slightly diverted, but it's hard two separate these two issues.
    On that issue, I'm neutral; I think either policy is ethically problematic. Pregnancy is a major biochemical event, one of the primary impetuses for women seeking abortions. Compelling them to go through it to satisfy the parental prerogative of the father seems fair in some senses, but morally and practically difficult in others.

    However, even if the policy comes down in favor of women, allowing father to bow out of childcare is not a legitimate way of compensating them for the loss of rights, because you are taking rights from a powerless entity not involved in the antagonism between adults of the two sexes.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 09-01-11 at 12:37 AM.
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  6. #66
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    That's just bizarre to me. Having substantially less money doesn't affect the child's life at all?

    In a way it seems as though you are bordering on a 'spiritually enlightened' critique of materialism, as in, material things won't make a profound difference in a child's life when spiritual things are lacking. While love and attention are more important than material things, children still need clothing, food, medical attention, and tools for the occupations appropriate to their age. If the mother can't afford them, somebody else has to. Should the tax payers cover all the difference, or should the biological father pay some as well?



    On that issue, I'm neutral; I think either policy is ethically problematic. Pregnancy is a major biochemical event, one of the primary impetuses for women seeking abortions. Compelling them to go through it to satisfy the parental prerogative of the father seems fair in some senses, but morally and practically difficult in others.

    However, even if the policy comes down in favor of women, allowing father to bow out of childcare is not a legitimate way of compensating them for the loss of rights, because you are taking rights from a powerless entity not involved in the antagonism between adults of the two sexes.
    "substantially less" according to who?
    what does that even mean? what is substantial?
    Please stop using emotional arguments and use real life ones

    whats substainal? $100, $300 $500 $1000 a month?
    how many kids actually get that?
    How many parents use that money properly?
    can $300 a month replace a parent that actually does their job?

    sorry but the money doesnt matter MUCH it is a PIECE of the puzzle that will not be effected much at all


    also society ALREADY pays and I dont think that would change much at all
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  7. #67
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathematician View Post
    You're right, good catch.
    wasnt implying you meant it that way BTW I was just saying
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  8. #68
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    What a crock of bull****. The woman did or didn't do this or that. The man doesn't have to this or he should do that.

    What in the hell is the matter with everybody? Once a child is born its no longer about what the woman or man wants!

    A kid is 100% dependent on adults....PERIOD! Stop ****ing over the kids' welfare. Grow the **** up people.
    You misunderstand the point and all this emotional blathering doesn't help. I said nothing of when the child was born. This issue is discussing prior to birt hand when abortion is still a viable means of birth control.

    Anything else then?
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  9. #69
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    More importantly, so do the courts.



    Which IMO she is doing when she takes you to court.
    The courts have addressed this specific issue? When? What case specifically argued that her choice to not use birth control means that he is liable for child support? I am sure that they are close, but not specific.

    Even if there are some, Courts screw up or make immoral or unfair decisions all the time. Women were not allowed to vote. Separate but Equal was held up as Constitutional by SCOTUS. All we are seeing here is sexism at it's finest.

    It will probably never reverse either. That would anger the female vote or those that don't understand the subtlty of the issue as well.
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  10. #70
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    Uh, what?
    Exactly. Your argument was illogical and made little sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
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