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Thread: Child Support Payments

  1. #381
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    You're not really making a statement one way or the other... I don't disagree with what you are saying. Yes, having sex means there is a risk of pregnancy. However, sex, conception, and gestation are different components of reproduction. When you acknowledge that risk, you are not accepting the risk. Birth control is a statement that gestation is unwanted.... an abortion is clear and obvious statement that gestation is unwanted. So what you're arguing, isn't really clear.
    No, it is. Once one is pregnant two have created life. You may not want it, but it's still possible and you have to understand that. Having sex is acceptance of the consequences bore through having sex. It's just simple biology, as easily understood as addition. The point I'm arguing is clear. It doesn't matter what was intended or what wasn't intended. All parties participated freely, and the least of all whom should be punished should be the life created. It is innocent of choice and wrong doing and stupidity or foolishness or emotion. Err to life.
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  2. #382
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    As I responded in similar threads the law is without a doubt wrong and broken in this area. Anybody that denies that is just dishonest and or blind.

    The law is bias, outdated discriminatory in this area.

    A man should have the option to not pay child support if he wants BUT it should just be at any whim which he chooses.

    In the very beginning he should get the choice and all his parental rights are negated if he chooses not to pay.

    Now of course the laws/rules/conditions would need worked out and much more in depth that this lol but IM sure you get the idea.

    A women currently could trick the man into having a baby and make him pay, simply not tell him for years then come after him for support and back support or simply just abort against his will (btw this I would NEVER change, cant force a women to carry a baby but its the main reason why logical there needs to be other options)

    Anyway like I said I dont know all the laws that would need written or fixed but this area of law is definitely broken and thats obvious to anybody objective.
    That actually happens very infrequently. In my state, the dept of health requires a name for the father. It's not very easy for a female to say she doesn't know, unless she is giving it up for adoption. And the only women I know who don't go after the father early on, is because he is a POS and they don't want him around the kid. If he wasn't a POS, if would exercise his right to fight for his custody rights in the first place. The only reason why men get hit with back child support, is because they fail to pay once they get a notice to pay.

  3. #383
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    And a man can do all those things to woman, a man can prick a condom, a man can rape her, refuse to pull out, slip the condom off, etc. and many times people (both men and women) view a baby/pregnancy as a way to keep their partner and prevent a breakup/divorce. That's why I am pro choice.
    Thank you for making my point even stronger. You are correct, he can do all those things as well, the issue is that she does not have to face "responsibility" for caring for a future child due to his actions. She can have an abortion. He has no recourse.

    If a woman is in an abusive situation, and wants to leave, sometimes having an abortion permits her to leave and escape her abuser.
    A good thing indeed...

    A man isn't entirely powerless. A man, even if he is a rapist/abuser, can fight for custody rights to their child. And no, I don't see any problem with a man annulling his parental rights. Nobody should have a baby as a way to control their partner, or manipulate their sexual relationship to cause a pregnancy. Somebody having a child should not feel trapped or punished, nor should children viewed as consequences.
    Well said...

    If you think forcing a man to pay child support after a woman pricks his condom is wrong, then you can relate to the way a woman feels when she is being forced to gestate a child that she didn't want to conceive in the first place.
    Yes, but those days are over. She can abort now. No woman is "forced" to do gestate a child.

    If you're going to use arguments like that to show how unjust it is to force a man to pay child support, then you should support a woman's right to choose as well as the man's.

    Maybe she used birth control...
    Maybe it failed...
    Maybe he pricked a hole in the condom...
    Maybe he lied to her about being sterilized...

    It's totally out of hand for you to relate to a man on that level and take his side, but not a woman's... If it's so wrong to force a man in that situation, then it should be equally wrong to force a woman to carry the baby in that situation.
    Agreed. It is equally, if not more wrong, to force a woman to remain pregnant against her wishes...

    Well, off to see my non-aborted daughters and play at the beach!
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  4. #384
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No, it is. Once one is pregnant two have created life. You may not want it, but it's still possible and you have to understand that. Having sex is acceptance of the consequences bore through having sex. It's just simple biology, as easily understood as addition. The point I'm arguing is clear. It doesn't matter what was intended or what wasn't intended. All parties participated freely, and the least of all whom should be punished should be the life created. It is innocent of choice and wrong doing and stupidity or foolishness or emotion. Err to life.
    Having sex is not acceptance of the pregnancy... if that were true, we wouldn't be having this conversation because abortion wouldn't exist. Acceptance is not a matter of biology, it's a matter of pro life philosophy and attitudes toward abortion and sex. Wanting to have sex is natural, and not wanting to be pregnant or bring children into the world in the face of risk, and other situations, is also natural. Abortions even occur in nature. Animals like foxes have been observed self inducing abortions.

    Acknowledgement of risk, is not the same as consent. I drove a car Friday night, I know there is a risk of drunk drivers causing an accident. I fully acknowledged that, so if I got injured in a car accident by a drunk driver, does that mean the drunk driver wouldn't be arrested or charged? Does that mean I consented to being injured?

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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Oh, I'm as serious as global warming.
    thats what I thought
    i accept you conceding
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  6. #386
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Having sex is not acceptance of the pregnancy... if that were true, we wouldn't be having this conversation because abortion wouldn't exist. Acceptance is not a matter of biology, it's a matter of pro life philosophy and attitudes toward abortion and sex. Wanting to have sex is natural, and not wanting to be pregnant or bring children into the world in the face of risk, and other situations, is also natural. Abortions even occur in nature. Animals like foxes have been observed self inducing abortions.

    Acknowledgement of risk, is not the same as consent. I drove a car Friday night, I know there is a risk of drunk drivers causing an accident. I fully acknowledged that, so if I got injured in a car accident by a drunk driver, does that mean the drunk driver wouldn't be arrested or charged? Does that mean I consented to being injured?
    No, it means that you consented to the probability and should the probability work out you can't get mad at momentum for changing so rapidly. If you go sky diving and your parachute doesn't open, you can't get mad at gravity. If you have sex and you get pregnant, you can't be mad at the life you create. These are natural things. And once that life is created, you must consider it. It's no longer for your convenience alone.
    Last edited by Ikari; 09-06-11 at 01:13 AM.
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  7. #387
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    thats what I thought
    i accept you conceding
    You don't think global warming is serious? I'll go get Al Gore.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  8. #388
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathematician View Post
    If the woman is going to use the argument "my body, my choice" then the man should reply "your body, your responsibility".

    Personally, I disagree with it being solely her choice. I feel that if the father wants the child then she should be obligated to give birth.
    And I feel if a man has a child and abandons it, or refuses to pay support, he should be obligated to have a vasectomy
    Last edited by Flippinfunky; 09-06-11 at 01:20 AM.
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  9. #389
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No, it means that you consented to the probability and should the probability work out you can't get mad at momentum for changing so rapidly. If you go sky diving and your parachute doesn't open, you can't get mad at gravity. If you have sex and you get pregnant, you can't be mad at the life you create. These are natural things. And once that life is created, you must consider it. It's no longer for your convenience alone.
    I am not deny biology or the probability or risk, nor am I getting mad or angry at it. If you go sky diving, there is a risk the parachute doesn't open. If it doesn't open, then it doesn't... ideally, you'd want a back up parachute or a safety plan like "rag doll" to prevent the worst outcome. Abortion is a backup plan. It's not a time machine destroying the time continuum and causing the breakdown and unraveling of biology. It's just a backup measure.

  10. #390
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    I am not deny biology or the probability or risk, nor am I getting mad or angry at it. If you go sky diving, there is a risk the parachute doesn't open. If it doesn't open, then it doesn't... ideally, you'd want a back up parachute or a safety plan like "rag doll" to prevent the worst outcome. Abortion is a backup plan. It's not a time machine destroying the time continuum and causing the breakdown and unraveling of biology. It's just a backup measure.
    I just can't see it as a backup plan. You've already made life. You've already impacted the ground. Momentum has changed. To me, it sounds well more like repercussion. And when the repercussion is life, I think it best to err on its side. Better to be alive then dead, I say.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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