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Thread: Child Support Payments

  1. #371
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Women and young girl's shouldn't be slaves to their biology.
    And men should then? It's essentially what you're saying.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
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  2. #372
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathematician View Post
    I can make the same argument that if she didn't want to get pregnant then she shouldn't have had sex either. I'm all about waiting to screw until you're willing to take the risk of pregnancy. This applies to both sides.
    Then why do you support forcing a consequence on one gender, but not the other?

  3. #373
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    And men should then? It's essentially what you're saying.
    Um, no, that's not what I am saying. You seem to suggest that females should be, but males shouldn't... or am I wrong?

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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Plenty of mistake. I can't believe you're still trying to argue against it. The fact that you have nothing to back up but attempted ridicule marks that you have no argument. What you said at the end and what you said at the beginning are not the same thing. Sorry.
    Ok its official NOW you are Fin with me

    actually they are identical LMAO

    YOU said the welfare of the child is not considered

    I said:this is NOT always the case, yes some mindless dont think about that but the majority actually do and its WHY they abort. You may disagree with them but its still why they do it.

    this is EXACTLY the same as saying as saying

    ""Some people have abortions because they feel its in the child's best welfare to do so"

    if you are trying to now play a word game of majority vs some the only reason I said some the second time is the same reason I said majority the first time. Neither of them mean ALL.

    Thats it all I meant is NOT ALL LMAO

    sorry they are identical

    and if if you are trying to claim they are not because of majority/some that doesn't really matter because you think none and that still makes you are 100% wrong.

    Like I said dont tell me what you THINK I mean go by what is actually being said LOL
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  5. #375
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    What a crock of bull****. The woman did or didn't do this or that. The man doesn't have to this or he should do that.

    What in the hell is the matter with everybody? Once a child is born its no longer about what the woman or man wants!

    A kid is 100% dependent on adults....PERIOD! Stop ****ing over the kids' welfare. Grow the **** up people.
    I agree with your point. Men should want help their children, especially if they are pro life... But if you notice, most of the pro life men in this thread, support a man opting out of child support while attacking a woman's abortion rights.

    Pro lifers want to make abortion and reproduction all about consequences and duties. They fail to understand that some people shouldn't have kids. They also fail to understand that when parents don't adequately care for their children, then society has to step inand they will literally pay for their pro life beliefs. On top of that, most pro lifers I know haven't adopted a child, and don't help children in their own communities. They spend more time in pro life marches and volunteering the PCC, than doing anything for kids already born and in need.

  6. #376
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Um, no, that's not what I am saying. You seem to suggest that females should be, but males shouldn't... or am I wrong?
    You are. Both should be. It's human reproduction, it's well known. Both people make a choice, and do so knowingly. We teach this in school rather early on for these reasons. There are probabilities at stake, chances; nothing is 100% safe. These are known. Reproduction is an increadibly strong and primal emotion. There are ways to take the probabilities down significantly; but they aren't zero. This is known. I don't see why one side should be able to get off and one side not particularly when the question is about human life. I think that both should be held responsible to the life they create. Ideally anyway.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
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  7. #377
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    Except that a woman has a uterus and a man doesn't. The man gets to walk away from the choice to have sex but the woman does not. She has to deal with it - whether she decides to have the baby or have an abortion.

    I find it incredibly telling that on one hand, the pro-life want to stop women from "murdering babies", but since they can't, they'll turn around and try to argue for men's rights to financially coerce women into having abortions just so that men can have equal freedom to choose. That looks a lot more like punishing women than it does fighting for men's rights.

    In your vendetta against women's rights, you are overlooking what child support laws are about: children. It has nothing to do with women, but providing children who are born with the best chance at life. So while you're busy trying to equalize a woman's right to choose because you perceive that men are at a disadvantage, the law is more concerned about the welfare of children.

    Women have a right to choose because of biological determinism. It sucks for men but that's just the way it is. She can abort or have the baby. When men are capable of carrying children to term, then we can have this discussion. Until then, I care more about children being supported than I do men shirking their responsibilities.

    Men will never have equal abortion rights because men don't carry fetuses. Get a clue.



    Uh, what?
    Excellent point.

    A wallet can't be equated to one's physical body. Men and women can't ever really be equal when it comes to reproduction.

    If a woman dies in childbirth, we don't shoot the man in the head.

    My sister was 24 and had her first son, and later required a total hysterical because of that pregnancy. Now her chances of cancer and bone disease have increased tenfold.

    My other sister developed gestational diabetes and was severely ill most of her pregnancy, and couldn't work.

    Men will never experience that. I have no ****ing idea how men can go into a delivery room, and watch their wife and especially their own child give birth, and then have the ****ing arrogance to tell all females in this country that shouldn't be a choice for them. I am sorry, but you're a man, stfu. It's not your body or your health, and don't try to tell me, "but it's not just your body..." because it does involve my body, my identity, and my emotions. Don't pretend or try to tell me that is NOT relevant or NOT important, because it is.

  8. #378
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Any argument that starts with "She should have had an abortion" makes it a duty instead of a choice.
    I mean "should" as in "if she doesn't want to raise it herself, she 'should' have an abortion". That can easily be changed to could. She could if she wants to, or not. Her choice. No duty nor obligation. Sorry...

    The parents are BOTH financially responsible from the child from the moment it is conceived until it turns 18. If it dies somewhere in between, then the financial responsibility ends.
    It is all about her choice and talking about when it is concieved is to miss the point entirely...

    That is NOT at all analogous to a man disavowing responsibility for his child. Let's take a look at how those outcomes would actually play out. Can we agree that a 50-50 split of financial responsibility is fair for "standard" cases...where both parents want the child (and assuming relatively equal incomes for simplicity)? OK, then let's look at how those two "choices" would actually play out to see if it's fair.

    The woman chooses to have an abortion: Man 0%, woman 0% (of the cost of raising the child).
    The woman chooses not to have an abortion: Man 50%, woman 50%.

    The man chooses to disavow responsibility: Man 0%, woman 100%.
    The man chooses to do the right thing and care for his kid: Man 50%, woman 50%.

    In NONE of these cases would the man be responsible for more than half of the responsibility of caring for the kid. In all of those situations EXCEPT the one you are advocating (allowing the man to run away from his financial obligations), the financial burden is equal on both parents. Therefore letting men disavow responsibility is NOT the same as a woman having an abortion; it's more analogous to the baby being born and then the woman disavowing responsibility...which is also not allowed by our legal system.
    The man chooses to do the right thing and care for his kid.
    The man to run away from his financial obligations.

    Jeez. Such emotional hatred.

    It isn't a "kid". It is a zygote.

    That being said, I pay far more than 50% and I would bet that most men do that have some custody of their children. I pay for 100% of my time with them, around 50% of the week and I pay her for much of her time with them as well.

    Correct. If you get pregnant you're just as free to have an abortion as a woman is. If you're unable to exercise that right, blame biology rather than our legal system.
    I have pointed out that this is a disingenuous argument at it's core. It is analogous to saying that a homosexual can marry equally as a heterosexual can. If a man can't get pregnant, to say that he has equal rights to an abortion is dishonest and misleading.

    The misogyny here is staggering. You start off saying that the WOMAN should have used birth control to prevent a pregnancy, and then when I point out that exactly the same thing could be said about the man, you immediately shift blame to this theoretical woman based on how she "might" have been a conniving bitch. I don't know what your deal is, but it sounds like you have some real issues with women.
    Dude, if you are going to take that route then you can just have a nice day. Play pop psychologist with somebody that it might actually bother or be true of. I could just as easily say that you sound like a female feminist and that if you are a man, you lack self esteem. What's the point in that?

    Stick to the topic.

    She has the ultimate birth control... abortion. If she does not want to raise a child on her own she "COULD" get an abortion. It is her choice. There is no kid yet, it is a zygote. Neither have any responsiblity since there is no kid. She CHOOSES to let the pregnancy continue. It is her CHOICE to let the zygote evolve. Nobody is or will force her... certainly not the man in question. She has free will to abort or not abort. If she chooses to abort, fine. If she chooses to not abort, fine. Forcing that man to be repsonsible for her "CHOICE" lacks logic at it's core and you have said LITERALLY NOTHING to refute that.

    Anything else?

    Your solution of allowing a father to disavow responsibility for his kids would stick the woman with 100% of the cost of raising the child. I have not advocated anything similar in the reverse.
    There is no "kid". There also is no "child" or "baby". It is a group of cells known as a "ZYGOTE". Got it?

    It is her choice to continue the pregnancy until it becomes a kid. Deal with that and about her choice. All you are doing with the rest is to create tangents and alter the point of the argument away from her choice and onto some mythical "responsibility" that he has for a zygote.
    Last edited by Bodhisattva; 09-06-11 at 12:53 AM.
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  9. #379
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    You are. Both should be. It's human reproduction, it's well known. Both people make a choice, and do so knowingly. We teach this in school rather early on for these reasons. There are probabilities at stake, chances; nothing is 100% safe. These are known. Reproduction is an increadibly strong and primal emotion. There are ways to take the probabilities down significantly; but they aren't zero. This is known. I don't see why one side should be able to get off and one side not particularly when the question is about human life. I think that both should be held responsible to the life they create. Ideally anyway.
    You're not really making a statement one way or the other... I don't disagree with what you are saying. Yes, having sex means there is a risk of pregnancy. However, sex, conception, and gestation are different components of reproduction. When you acknowledge that risk, you are not accepting the risk. Birth control is a statement that gestation is unwanted.... an abortion is clear and obvious statement that gestation is unwanted. So what you're arguing, isn't really clear.

  10. #380
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    Ok its official NOW you are Fin with me

    actually they are identical LMAO

    YOU said the welfare of the child is not considered

    I said:this is NOT always the case, yes some mindless dont think about that but the majority actually do and its WHY they abort. You may disagree with them but its still why they do it.

    this is EXACTLY the same as saying as saying

    ""Some people have abortions because they feel its in the child's best welfare to do so"

    if you are trying to now play a word game of majority vs some the only reason I said some the second time is the same reason I said majority the first time. Neither of them mean ALL.

    Thats it all I meant is NOT ALL LMAO

    sorry they are identical

    and if if you are trying to claim they are not because of majority/some that doesn't really matter because you think none and that still makes you are 100% wrong.

    Like I said dont tell me what you THINK I mean go by what is actually being said LOL
    Oh, I'm as serious as global warming.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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