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Thread: Child Support Payments

  1. #311
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Obviously I can because that's what I did. And NO, if it could be done we'd still be having this debate, it would just be reversed from what it is currently.
    You sure did...and it means absolutely NOTHING. There's nothing in logic or the law that support your fantasy reverse tales. Your argument doesn't even include "assumptions or definitions"...as you've accused me of doing. EXCUUUUUSSSSEEEE ME. Especially for "definitions".

    Break my post apart and tear away... and I'll happily review my assumptions...or definitions and give you concrete information in lieu of.

    But lets go back and REVIEW our banter, otay...?

    Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    All these arguments work the other way too. Life ain't fair. Women clearly know prior to having sex that pregnancy can result, blah blah blah. All the arguments you use can be used in reverse as well; you've just made assumptions and definitions earlier on to support your argument is all.

    As I stated much earlier in the thread, these topics are purely philosophical as no real law would ever be passed that would allow fathers to get away without paying for the kid. Thus we are free to explore the topic void of the usual moral quandary which typically accompanies the topic.

    MORAL QUANDARY? You are too funny.
    No...I'm sorry, the arguments don't work the other way. This thread was created to rant about the inequalities, disparities, or lack of rights AKA DISCRIMINATION AGAINST MEN when it comes to what women want to do in case of a pregnancy. They have the legal right to abort...with or without a the father's permission. Should they choose to keep the baby, they can petition the court to mandate that the father pay child support...and other forms of responsibilities such as required visitations and so-forth...DESPITE the father wanting a child or NOT.

    That's what this thread is about...legal discrimination against men.

    I'm not a Constitutional Attorney or an Attorney General of some state -so I can't argue points of the law that exists to the degree that I can be a change agent. I will never be able to alter Federal and State Supreme Court Decisions. THE REALITY IS: They are what they are. AS A MAN...you are legally bound by them. It's your responsibility to be at least aware of them, if not educate yourself about these laws.

    You have the choice to ignore them or abide by them. But ether way - the law will prevail with or without your approval.

    IN THE END

    NO...you aren't going to reverse anything. If it could be done...we wouldn't be having this debate.

    As the country song says, "That's my story and I'm stickin to it!"

  2. #312
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    You sure did...and it means absolutely NOTHING. There's nothing in logic or the law that support your fantasy reverse tales.
    Just reality. The current set of abortion laws came from the adoption of a certain sect of arguments. But before the law was there, both sides had arguments. After the law was there, both sides had arguments. Nothing really changed except for which side was "winning".

    The arguments of saying "well the guy should have kept it in his pants" does go both ways; particularly if you switch assumptions of argument. There can be argument made that says "the woman should have kept her legs closed, but she instead engaged in an activity that could lead to pregnancy, in this case did. Now there's a child and you have to deal with that outcome". You can always say that the dude is on the line, that it's his fault and he should have thought ahead or planned better or made better choices. But the same argument can be made in reverse. Where the woman is on the line, that it's her fault, and she should have thought ahead or planned better or made better choices. That once the life is created, just because she messed up and planned poorly doesn't mean that she can destroy the life for her convenience. See, that argument DOES go both ways.

    Other people have attempted to say that abortion considers the welfare of the child. But it's also a BS argument for one to try to claim that killing the child best serves its welfare. Because that's obviously not true. Being dead does not serve anyone's personal welfare.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  3. #313
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    you are 100% right it IS my opinion thus proving welfare is SUBJECTIVE and what you think it is I and others may not.

    thanks, glad you finally get it!!

    Id acknowledge the absolute IF you gave me one RELATING to welfare, you did not, you gave me your opinion of what you thought one was but again, it was just your opinion. By definition there is no absolute and its subjective thats the reality you are denying LMAO

    Glad you decided to no longer fight the truth and reality.
    I'm a scientist, I know nothing but truth and reality. It's my specialty. It's how I can recognize the subjective and absolute properties of something such as welfare. It's a qualitative and quantitative set of measurements, and I am damned good at them. Welfare cannot be possessed by the dead. Sorry, that's just an absolute.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  4. #314
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I'm a scientist, I know nothing but truth and reality. It's my specialty. It's how I can recognize the subjective and absolute properties of something such as welfare. It's a qualitative and quantitative set of measurements, and I am damned good at them. Welfare cannot be possessed by the dead. Sorry, that's just an absolute.
    Think what you want but either way you are wrong LMAO
    It seems to be common place with you that at times that you try to change arguments and distract people and get off track etc etc but it doesn't work with me. Im not emotionally charged nor do I let people change my argument or move my goal post.

    We could go another 300 pages and nothing will change, welfare would still be subjective and claiming anything else would still be wrong. You simply dont get to choose what welfare is for everyone, they do.

    Welfare is not a SET qualitative and quantitative set of measurements, its a subjective one.

    what you are failing to recognize is that its only your opinion on what welfare is and that opinion only reigns true for you.

    I do however find your responses very entertaining and even quite inventive at times. Its funny to watch you make some people spin into a tizzy, get all emotional and not even know what they are debating anymore. LOL

    Regardless the main point I made is still true. Welfare is subjective.
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  5. #315
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    Regardless the main point I made is still true. Welfare is subjective.
    Your statement is only half true. Relative welfare is subjective. But there is an absolute, one you continually WILL NOT even address so that you can keep with your "It's an opinion!" nonsense. And that is that the dead do not possess welfare. And that's an absolute. One's well being no longer has any meaning once one no longer has a being. That's absolute. Quantitative measurement, BTW, is rarely "subjective". LMAO
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  6. #316
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Your statement is only half true. Relative welfare is subjective. But there is an absolute, one you continually WILL NOT even address so that you can keep with your "It's an opinion!" nonsense. And that is that the dead do not possess welfare. And that's an absolute. One's well being no longer has any meaning once one no longer has a being. That's absolute. Quantitative measurement, BTW, is rarely "subjective". LMAO
    I have addressed them all you just choice to play games, or ignore that facts lol
    Like I said we could go on 300 more posts, tomorrow my welfare will still be my choice and you have no impact on it because its subjective

    if a person thinks its in their best welfare to be dead that that is welfare for them.
    You could argue that the welfare now comes to an END but that still doesn't change the fact they determined their best welfare is to die LMAO

    You simply just dont get to control it. Want proof, tell me what MY welfare is. I cant wait to hear this LMAO
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  7. #317
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    Except that a woman has a uterus and a man doesn't. The man gets to walk away from the choice to have sex but the woman does not. She has to deal with it - whether she decides to have the baby or have an abortion.

    I find it incredibly telling that on one hand, the pro-life want to stop women from "murdering babies", but since they can't, they'll turn around and try to argue for men's rights to financially coerce women into having abortions just so that men can have equal freedom to choose. That looks a lot more like punishing women than it does fighting for men's rights.
    In your vendetta against women's rights, you are overlooking what child support laws are about: children. It has nothing to do with women, but providing children who are born with the best chance at life. So while you're busy trying to equalize a woman's right to choose because you perceive that men are at a disadvantage, the law is more concerned about the welfare of children.

    Women have a right to choose because of biological determinism. It sucks for men but that's just the way it is. She can abort or have the baby. When men are capable of carrying children to term, then we can have this discussion. Until then, I care more about children being supported than I do men shirking their responsibilities.

    Men will never have equal abortion rights because men don't carry fetuses. Get a clue.



    Uh, what?
    It would look that way to a liberal like you. Why don't you get a clue. Women should not be solely empowered over procreation. If they want abortions, they need to pay up or shut up.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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  8. #318
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Don't have sex with someone you wouldn't want to have a child with or get a vasectomy.

  9. #319
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Luna Tick View Post
    Don't have sex with someone you wouldn't want to have a child with or get a vasectomy.
    simply unrealistic
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  10. #320
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    I have addressed them all you just choice to play games, or ignore that facts lol
    Like I said we could go on 300 more posts, tomorrow my welfare will still be my choice and you have no impact on it because its subjective

    if a person thinks its in their best welfare to be dead that that is welfare for them.
    You could argue that the welfare now comes to an END but that still doesn't change the fact they determined their best welfare is to die LMAO

    You simply just dont get to control it. Want proof, tell me what MY welfare is. I cant wait to hear this LMAO
    You ain't addressed nothing. You've merely said the entire time that "that's your opinion". Maybe then you can explain to me how someone has well being when they have no being. Perchance ghosts or afterlife or something. I await your proof.

    I mean yeah, my opinion on the subjective manner of welfare will have no impact on your own welfare....less I shoot you dead. Then I do have an impact. Of course, since it's all "objective" right? I may just be sending you to a better place. A little thanks would be nice.
    Last edited by Ikari; 09-02-11 at 11:39 PM.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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