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Thread: Child Support Payments

  1. #291
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    and you are free to have that opinion but the fact remains your opinion isnt other peoples and they make their choices for THEIR reasons not for what YOU say they are. I know you get that.
    While I do understand that people claim that, there are absolutes. One such thing is that dead is dead. If we are considering "welfare" of an unborn child, it should be known by all sides that death is the most damaging dynamic to affect "welfare". Once you have chosen death of a human, you have marginalized that human's welfare. That is an absolute. I know you get that.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    While I do understand that people claim that, there are absolutes. One such thing is that dead is dead. If we are considering "welfare" of an unborn child, it should be known by all sides that death is the most damaging dynamic to affect "welfare". Once you have chosen death of a human, you have marginalized that human's welfare. That is an absolute. I know you get that.
    LMAO
    wow did you just declare your opinion as an absolute?
    Fact is people dont share you opinion on what abortion is nor do they all feel that bringing an unwanted child into the world is better than death. Hell people kill them selves because they disagree with you.

    Sorry its still your opinion and NOT an absolute. Thats what I understand because those are the facts.
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  3. #293
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    LMAO
    wow did you just declare your opinion as an absolute?
    Fact is people dont share you opinion on what abortion is nor do they all feel that bringing an unwanted child into the world is better than death. Hell people kill them selves because they disagree with you.

    Sorry its still your opinion and NOT an absolute. Thats what I understand because those are the facts.
    No, I declared death as an absolute. Which it is. All welfare stops at death. If you can't admit that, then you can't be honest in this debate. Of course, if you don't hold honesty to your arguments, then I'll no longer have to be bothered by that constraint either.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No, I declared death as an absolute. Which it is. All welfare stops at death. If you can't admit that, then you can't be honest in this debate. Of course, if you don't hold honesty to your arguments, then I'll no longer have to be bothered by that constraint either.
    so what that death is an absolute LMAO
    it still doesnt mean ANYTHING to the debate on what your opinion is verse others.

    it has as much impact as saying yellow is a color

    Please explain how saying death is an absolute, which I agree it is changes anything about its still only your opinion that death is a pro or con in welfare of the child?? not to mention people dont even agree with you on what abortion is.

    answer is it DOESNT

    hell death itself could even be argued as not an absolute, wouldnt be my argument but it could be argued by some religions, so again

    this all still has no impact on you selling your opinion as fact because it is not
    Last edited by AGENT J; 09-02-11 at 02:57 PM.
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  5. #295
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    So for the one you support choice but the other support them getting fixed? Wow, that speaks volumes.
    your reading comprehension was impaired when you read that
    if i am wrong, explain why neither has the choice to prevent a new born from coming into this world

    So again the woman can decide to not care but the man is dragged for the ride. Seems fair..
    they both get to decide and they both have liability if they have failed to take adequate precautions
    the man gets dragged into nothing
    he placed himself there when he chose to risk having a child and the responsibility which comes with it

    now, if you can document that the father was held under duress and forced to provide his seed, despite his protests, then that would exculpate him from responsibility. other than that exception, he engaged in the intimacy of his own volition and is thus responsible for any issue which might result
    as a taxpayer, i certainly do not want to be held responsible to provide for his (and her) child, only because they prefer to remain irresponsible
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  6. #296
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    so what that death is an absolute LMAO
    it still doesnt mean ANYTHING to the debate on what your opinion is verse others.

    it has as much impact as saying yellow is a color

    Please explain how saying death is an absolute, which I agree it is changes anything about its still only your opinion that death is a pro or con in welfare of the child?? not to mention people dont even agree with you on what abortion is.

    answer is it DOESNT

    hell death itself could even be argued as not an absolute, wouldnt be my argument but it could be argued by some religions, so again

    this all still has no impact on you selling your opinion as fact because it is not
    1wel·fare
    noun \ˈwel-ˌfer\
    Definition of WELFARE
    1
    : the state of doing well especially in respect to good fortune, happiness, well-being, or prosperity <must look out for your own welfare>
    2
    a : aid in the form of money or necessities for those in need b : an agency or program through which such aid is distributed

    Innate to welfare is being in a state of "alive". If you are looking to maximize welfare, you are looking to maximize one's state of well being...which requires being. Thus, welfare stops at death. Once you no longer are, you no longer possess welfare or the possibilities to improve or diminish it. So when you talk of considering welfare, choosing the death of an organism is marginalizing that organism's welfare as you are setting it to zero.

    As for death as an absolute, I suppose if you're some flavor of theist you could say that it's not an absolute. But then I suppose it depends on your flavor of theism. There are some sects which believe in original sin and that you must be baptized to remove that original sin, else you are going to hell. In such case, we can ask "is it better to be poor or in hell?".
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    1wel·fare
    noun \ˈwel-ˌfer\
    Definition of WELFARE
    1
    : the state of doing well especially in respect to good fortune, happiness, well-being, or prosperity <must look out for your own welfare>
    2
    a : aid in the form of money or necessities for those in need b : an agency or program through which such aid is distributed

    Innate to welfare is being in a state of "alive". If you are looking to maximize welfare, you are looking to maximize one's state of well being...which requires being. Thus, welfare stops at death. Once you no longer are, you no longer possess welfare or the possibilities to improve or diminish it. So when you talk of considering welfare, choosing the death of an organism is marginalizing that organism's welfare as you are setting it to zero.

    As for death as an absolute, I suppose if you're some flavor of theist you could say that it's not an absolute. But then I suppose it depends on your flavor of theism. There are some sects which believe in original sin and that you must be baptized to remove that original sin, else you are going to hell. In such case, we can ask "is it better to be poor or in hell?".
    LMAO
    so if I read the definition of whore in the dictionary and then judge some one as such does that make in an absolute or even true? nope it will just be my opinion



    theres adults that kill themselves because they think they are better off dead, they believe they have no welfare or death is the best one

    what you think is innate to welfare is just your opinion

    like I said, OPINION, sorry

    try to argue it if you like but the fact thats its your opinion will not change, you are judging it from your view and thats it nothing more.
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  8. #298
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    LMAO
    so if I read the definition of whore in the dictionary and then judge some one as such does that make in an absolute or even true? nope it will just be my opinion



    theres adults that kill themselves because they think they are better off dead, they believe they have no welfare or death is the best one

    what you think is innate to welfare is just your opinion

    like I said, OPINION, sorry

    try to argue it if you like but the fact thats its your opinion will not change, you are judging it from your view and thats it nothing more.
    So well being no longer requires being? I don't know about that. To me it's like I'm saying red light falls between 620 and 750 nm. The photon with frequency 700 nm is red. To which you would then reply "red is just your interpretation of the color and thus your opinion".

    Death is a state of not being, if you have no being you can have no well being and thus no welfare. It's as if you're telling me you can be hungry when your dead and saying that it's merely my opinion that one must be alive to be hungry.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #299
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    All these arguments work the other way too. Life ain't fair. Women clearly know prior to having sex that pregnancy can result, blah blah blah. All the arguments you use can be used in reverse as well; you've just made assumptions and definitions earlier on to support your argument is all.

    As I stated much earlier in the thread, these topics are purely philosophical as no real law would ever be passed that would allow fathers to get away without paying for the kid. Thus we are free to explore the topic void of the usual moral quandary which typically accompanies the topic.
    No...I'm sorry, the arguments don't work the other way. This thread was created to rant about the inequalities, disparities, or lack of rights AKA DISCRIMINATION AGAINST MEN when it comes to what women want to do in case of a pregnancy. They have the legal right to abort...with or without a the father's permission. Should they choose to keep the baby, they can petition the court to mandate that the father pay child support...and other forms of responsibilities such as required visitations and so-forth...DESPITE the father wanting a child or NOT.

    That's what this thread is about...legal discrimination against men.

    I'm not a Constitutional Attorney or an Attorney General of some state -so I can't argue points of the law that exists to the degree that I can be a change agent. I will never be able to alter Federal and State Supreme Court Decisions. THE REALITY IS: They are what they are. AS A MAN...you are legally bound by them. It's your responsibility to be at least aware of them, if not educate yourself about these laws.

    You have the choice to ignore them or abide by them. But ether way - the law will prevail with or without your approval.

    IN THE END

    NO...you aren't going to reverse anything. If it could be done...we wouldn't be having this debate.

  10. #300
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    IN THE END

    NO...you aren't going to reverse anything. If it could be done...we wouldn't be having this debate.
    Obviously I can because that's what I did. And NO, if it could be done we'd still be having this debate, it would just be reversed from what it is currently.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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