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Thread: Child Support Payments

  1. #191
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I place higher value on children already born than I do a single load of jizm, if that is what you mean.
    I'm glad you see what's growing in the uterus as just a load of jizm...
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  2. #192
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathematician View Post
    I don't think your getting it through your thick skull that this is a double standard. If she doesn't want the financial responsibility of the child then, the way things are set now, she can have an abortion. We can either meet half way or argue all day. Either split the call on abortions or take the rights to choice along with responsibility.

    what choice does the man not legally have?

    Either party can decide to engage in sex, either party can choose to have an abortion if they are the one that is pregnant, either party can sue for custody of the child if it is born and force the other to pay child support, both parties are required to give it up for adoption
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  3. #193
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by OKgrannie View Post
    You can never be that sure of another person.
    The man can make the same argument. So, if he wants a kid then women can keep on aborting them and prevent him from having one. The woman only has to get pregnant once to have the kid she wants.
    "With me everything turns into mathematics."
    "It is not enough to have a good mind. The main thing is to use it well."
    "It is truth very certain that, when it is not in one's power to determine what is true, we ought to follow what is more probable." -- Rene Descartes

  4. #194
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    what choice does the man not legally have?

    Either party can decide to engage in sex, either party can choose to have an abortion if they are the one that is pregnant, either party can sue for custody of the child if it is born and force the other to pay child support, both parties are required to give it up for adoption
    a man cannot legally abort his unwanted fetus, a woman can. since it takes both to make the fetus, it is as much his as it is hers.
    Last edited by OscarB63; 09-01-11 at 08:52 PM.
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  5. #195
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    Correct, now here's the subtle clincher which you aren't getting. Of the two, the woman has to bear the pregnancy and the child, which is why the law more often than not defaults against the man. It's not fair, but it's a natural consequence.

    The woman can't take off. The man can. Hence child support laws.

    Is this becoming more clear yet?
    The woman "can't take off", but she can certainly have the child killed.

    More to the point, I understand and have understood quite well. I told you before, however, that this hypothetical exists outside the realm of reality and allows for discussion and debate void the moral quandary normally associated with the problem. You in fact agreed to it. Is this becoming more clear? I think most understand the system and why it is set the way it is. In fact, if you were to set this down to reality and say "in reality, if it came to a vote to let fathers off the hook for child payments, would you vote in favor of the law" you would be seeing a different set of answers. I don't think that any pro-lifer would honestly endorse a system wherein the welfare of the child would be put in such grave danger. In reality, the pro-lifers (I should say on the whole, there's probably a non-zero number that would go the other way) go after the dead beat dad. You fathered him, you pay. We're not willing to actually let a person off the hook when a child is involved; the child must be cared for. That's the reality, and that will remain the reality.

    The exercise of these sorts of hypothetical is to allow us to explore more the philosophical base. We aren't going to actually let dads get away without paying, so in the context of the hypothetical we can make arguments to the contrary based on basic philosophy and reason without worry of actually hurting a child. There is no real child. My arguments are in this light. What is fair, what is just? While the reality of the world may prevent the pure hypothetical from being realized as the rights and liberties of others must always be considered, the hypothetical frees us from that constraint. Does that make sense? In that light, I use your arguments and logic to show why the man should be given freedom to divorce himself from consequence, the same as woman have now in reality.
    Last edited by Ikari; 09-01-11 at 08:55 PM.
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  6. #196
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by OKgrannie View Post
    You can never be that sure of another person.
    Guess you're best keeping your legs closed or buying some batteries then, eh?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #197
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathematician View Post
    I'm glad you see what's growing in the uterus as just a load of jizm...
    Are you saying your jizm is too precious of a commodity to ever waste???
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  8. #198
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I place higher value on children already born than I do a single load of jizm, if that is what you mean.
    I place higher value on human life than the conveniences of some.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #199
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    what choice does the man not legally have?

    Either party can decide to engage in sex, either party can choose to have an abortion if they are the one that is pregnant, either party can sue for custody of the child if it is born and force the other to pay child support, both parties are required to give it up for adoption
    I like your profile pic. This argument almost makes me feel pro-pain in regards to giving child birth.
    "With me everything turns into mathematics."
    "It is not enough to have a good mind. The main thing is to use it well."
    "It is truth very certain that, when it is not in one's power to determine what is true, we ought to follow what is more probable." -- Rene Descartes

  10. #200
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    Re: Child Support Payments

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I place higher value on human life than the conveniences of some.
    So you never ejaculate except for procreation right?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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