View Poll Results: Do higher-incomes work harder than lower-incomes?

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  • Yes, the higher-incomes work harder

    38 44.71%
  • No, higher-incomes don't work harder

    35 41.18%
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Thread: Do Higher-Incomes Work Harder than Lower-Incomes?

  1. #11
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    Re: Do Higher-Incomes Work Harder than Lower-Incomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    I continually hear people expressing this sentiment, and it has never seemed true to me. If work is defined as "effort over time", then how could someone like Bill Gates live long enough to earn his fortune, relative to that enjoyed by other people? Many doctors, example, seem to put more "effort over time" into their careers, without ever gaining anywhere near the sum of money Bill Gates enjoys.

    Bill Gates obtained his wealth, not because of his own "effort over time", but because, in accordance with the conventions of capitalism, he networked himself into a position where he could compel others to sign a portions of their "labor over time" to him via contract. As long as this practice isn't pushed to its excesses, I don't have a problem with it, but getting wealthy through good networking is a significantly different process than earning your money through hard work.
    You're framing the issue in a way that leads you to an answer which departs from reality. People get rich because other people want to give them money. The reason that other people want to give the soon-to-be rich person money is that the soon-to-be rich person is offering to sell a product or service that people want and these soon-to-be customers want that product or service more than they want to hold on to their own money.

    If you have a product or service that people really, really want, then you too could become wealthy. The only way to get a lot of money is to either print it yourself, have someone give it to you or to earn it.

  2. #12
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    Re: Do Higher-Incomes Work Harder than Lower-Incomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    You're framing the issue in a way that leads you to an answer which departs from reality. People get rich because other people want to give them money. The reason that other people want to give the soon-to-be rich person money is that the soon-to-be rich person is offering to sell a product or service that people want and these soon-to-be customers want that product or service more than they want to hold on to their own money.

    If you have a product or service that people really, really want, then you too could become wealthy. The only way to get a lot of money is to either print it yourself, have someone give it to you or to earn it.
    More like the reality you are getting at it at cross-purposes with the point I'm making.

    And there's a lot more to getting rich than that.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 08-30-11 at 12:25 AM.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

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  3. #13
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    Re: Do Higher-Incomes Work Harder than Lower-Incomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    The only way to get a lot of money is to either print it yourself, have someone give it to you or to earn it.
    And of course... you can steal it!
    Last edited by David D.; 08-30-11 at 12:34 AM.

  4. #14
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    Re: Do Higher-Incomes Work Harder than Lower-Incomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    I don't think we can make the world fair, but it should still modify how we think and what we do about these matters.
    why? being realistic is proper thinking.



  5. #15
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    Re: Do Higher-Incomes Work Harder than Lower-Incomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    We have talked about this before and you will never fully convince me that someone sitting in an AC office is working harder than someone busting their ass doing road construction. Having said that? It all comes down to what you define as hard work and of course a scientist sitting in a lab using their brainpower to try to find a cure for all cancers is for sure working as hard as someone that is working on that road and that work may even be more important than safe roads. So honestly? I guess it just depends.
    You're going to have a hard time convincing me that anyone who bitches about being in a labor job couldn't have studied harder in school to get that job working in AC. While my friends in high school were playing Nintendo, I was reading and getting ahead in math and science. If I show the public the math I do for a living now, it should come as no surprise that they say "That looks hard."
    "With me everything turns into mathematics."
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    "It is truth very certain that, when it is not in one's power to determine what is true, we ought to follow what is more probable." -- Rene Descartes

  6. #16
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    Re: Do Higher-Incomes Work Harder than Lower-Incomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathematician View Post
    You're going to have a hard time convincing me that anyone who bitches about being in a labor job couldn't have studied harder in school to get that job working in AC. While my friends in high school were playing Nintendo, I was reading and getting ahead in math and science. If I show the public the math I do for a living now, it should come as no surprise that they say "That looks hard."
    most of us who are in white collar jobs learned that physical labor was not the way to go. Me, I spent a summer clearing scrub trees out etc. 6-9 hours a day with a chain saw or two man hand saw in 90 degree weather was edification enough. the next summer I worked as a "Gofor" and errand boy and filing clerk for a law firm. big difference and I made sure I got the kind of grades needed to go to a top law school



  7. #17
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    Re: Do Higher-Incomes Work Harder than Lower-Incomes?

    Effort isn't really the issue. To be a success at the Bill Gates level it takes effort, it takes a certain amount of luck, good timing, and lots of other things like fortitude, drive, vision, resourcefullness... many of us have these qualities but lack the luck and timing, others have the luck and timing but have fatal flaws in other areas that prevent them from achieving greatness. Both need to work hard for what they have... the scales of success are curved. A man with little to no money over 40 years creating a business and going from making 35 dollars a week to 35,000 a week and retiring is VERY successful. Scale that up to a 3 million a week on a world wide level... both are a win win.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  8. #18
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    Re: Do Higher-Incomes Work Harder than Lower-Incomes?

    Not to change course here, but the salary for any specific job is based on a multitude of factors. How "hard" somebody works is just one factor. A flooded market is another. If you want to earn more you have to be set apart. A lot of people can physically do roofing. All you need is one good supervisor and anybody without vertigo or a fear of heights can removed and replace shingles. In Texas, you aren't going to make a lot being a roofer because a lot of guys are willing and ready to do it. On the other hand, special education teachers in Texas are in high demand and you can expect a slightly higher salary than your general-ed teachers in most districts.

    Does the roofer work "harder"? In some ways, yeah. But it's a low-skill, labor-flooded field and competition is high. So even if it's "harder", it's likely to see less reward over time.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


  9. #19
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    Re: Do Higher-Incomes Work Harder than Lower-Incomes?

    Well, in this context it depends on one's definition of work. In terms of manual labor, the lower classes work harder, while in terms of intellectual labor, the upper class works harder.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

  10. #20
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    Re: Do Higher-Incomes Work Harder than Lower-Incomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Some is rich and some is poor
    that's the way the world is
    but I don't believe in lying back and saying
    how bad your luck is

    Joe Strummer

    I coach kids in a couple Olympic sports. I have seen kids work their butts off and never even make All America while other kids don't work any harder and win world and olympic medals.

    Is it fair?
    Those kids may have a natural talent. Either that or you are flat out lying. As to win world and olympic medals, you have no choice but to work hard.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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