View Poll Results: Should the rich get more posirive thinking and worry less about taxes?

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Thread: Should the rich get a more positive thinking?

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    Should the rich get a more positive thinking?

    The richest people in your country USA, have gotten a drastic increase in their income during the last 30 years compared to middle and lower class. Soo should the rich be more happy over that and less sad about how much tax they have to paid and also less afraid of new taxes? Easy yes and no question.

    http://www.cbo.gov/publications/coll...tax_income.pdf
    Last edited by Bergslagstroll; 08-29-11 at 06:38 AM.

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    Re: Should the rich get a more positive thinking?

    I don't support *more* taxation for anything or for any reason - Gates or Yates.

    I think our current system is already over the top and there's no reason for me to believe that government will manage to balance it's budget and cull it's excessive waste if only they had more money to spend.

    Any time they gain any sort of support for 'more taxes!' - they just raise their spending levels and things continue to climb through the roof and all that 'new tax money!' is just squandered and wasted - I'd like to see the opposite: a massive reduction in spending but *at least* just stagnation where things don't continually increase.

    Right now - do you think the government is spending your money wisely? Or your neighbor's money wisely?

    I don't - so I reject ANY suggestion that will give them more.

    It's not about rich or poor - it's about the selfish, fat, piggish government needing to learn how to budget, manage and control itself.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 08-29-11 at 07:14 AM.
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    Re: Should the rich get a more positive thinking?

    Taxes are anything else with a system. Things that work logically on paper do not necessarily execute according to plan. The rich are at a position where they have the resources to transfer their money in any way they want in order to pay less. No matter what is imposed by the government, the rich are able to and will pay less taxes because of loop holes in the tax code or tax havens. Whether or not this is right or wrong is another discussion, but the bottom line it happens. Also, instrinsically in the system of capitalism it is easy to make money when you have money, and therefore there is a snowball effect. So no matter what we do as a country, the rich will continue to get richer. I know a friend from high school whose father is on the executive level of Sprint. Once he finishes law school his father is going to front the money for him to start a venture capital firm.

    That proves my point. If anyone had millions of dollars they could start up a venture capitalist firm. Personally, this guy didn't do one AP class in high school, but knowing his family, he is probably going to pay people to make all the decisions for him. Which is fine, that is his life, but the point is, no matter what we do as a country the middle and lower class are going to be hit hard in regards to taxes because they do not have the resources to launder their money and not get caught.

    Also, intrinsically the rich will become richer. Also, everything is taxed in this country. When I go to sell some stock because it did well, the United States government taxes over 40 percent on all of those transactions. It isn't like the government isn't taxing. It's a mixture of things.

    In my opinion, the most important component to all of this is the competency of our leaders. They really are acting like children in regards to our debt crisis. But I suppose they are so rich they do not understand that if you made a huge purchase on a credit card, you can not remain solvent by continuing to pay for all of your original expenses. Any American who has balanced a check book knows this. Which means it doesn't necessarily mean you end social security and medicaid, but that means you stop funding black weapons projects and cut military spending on a military that is already apparently the best in the world. You can't have the whole cake!

    Add to the fact that American culture wants people to live outside their means. And that is a whole other discussion.

    What do I think needs to be done? What I think should be imposed is a flat tax rate across everyone. It automatically gets deducted from each and every pay check, which means Americans wouldn't have to file taxes, which means America could essentially abolish the mess of the IRS. Yeah I know, jobs would be lost. But lost government jobs mean less expenses for the government, which is what we have to do as a country. Why have a department to enforce a tax code, if the government could just deduct everything automatically? Where is the need of enforcement?

    Finally, the government has to realize that if they imposed a 100 percent tax rate they could not get out of the pickle that they put themselves in. They need to stop acting like children and face the consequences of their actions.

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    Re: Should the rich get a more positive thinking?

    I think we could adequately cull spending per the government if they just reign in excess and rid their selves of unnecessary expenses.

    Remember when Congress did the whole 'we'll buy cheaper bottled water and use less pens' streak? - That's the stuff I'm talking about. It doesn't have to mean cutting pensions and firing 1/2 the staff for it to have an impact. if every office, every department simply adhered strictly to their budget and did not force their selves to 'use it or lose it' if it was excessive then that would hack the cost of everything off like limbs off a dead tree.
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    Re: Should the rich get a more positive thinking?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    I don't support *more* taxation for anything or for any reason - Gates or Yates.

    I think our current system is already over the top and there's no reason for me to believe that government will manage to balance it's budget and cull it's excessive waste if only they had more money to spend.

    Any time they gain any sort of support for 'more taxes!' - they just raise their spending levels and things continue to climb through the roof and all that 'new tax money!' is just squandered and wasted - I'd like to see the opposite: a massive reduction in spending but *at least* just stagnation where things don't continually increase.

    Right now - do you think the government is spending your money wisely? Or your neighbor's money wisely?

    I don't - so I reject ANY suggestion that will give them more.

    It's not about rich or poor - it's about the selfish, fat, piggish government needing to learn how to budget, manage and control itself.
    What you say makes sense, as well as what the next poster brings up, the fact that the 'rich' have ways and means to transfer their money elsewhere.

    But hear me out.
    I am not for raising taxes, but more for shared responsibility. If only part of our citizens (47%, was is?) pays income tax, while the rest shares little or no responsibility, that means that those who don't pay have no stake in how, where, and how much money is spend.
    If everyone, though i.e. a consumption tax, pays an equal share, everyone has an interest as to how the funds are allocated.

    Without such tax, money is taken away from the American taxpayer, and is being spent on mostly foreign goods, leaving little or nothing where it should go, back into the hands of the American people.

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    Re: Should the rich get a more positive thinking?

    You cannot possibly suggest 'shared' responsibility when talking about raising taxes on the rich - and giving more support to the poor. That is not 'sharing' responsibility. That is relegating responsibility of financing to one group - while attempting to make the plights of another group less - ah - suffered. Or - it's taking one's responsibility, running from it, and dumping it off on others.

    That - to me - sings of French revolutionism in it's beginnings.

    Per people's influence - unfortunately - yes, money does in some twisted way mean more power and influence - moer along the lines of buying favoritism, brown nosing and lobbying one's personal goals through the legislation system (etc) - but everyone can and Obama winning the last election shows this is truth: what you lack in money as an individual can be made up for if you gain numbers.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 08-29-11 at 09:22 AM.
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    Re: Should the rich get a more positive thinking?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    You cannot possibly suggest 'shared' responsibility when talking about raising taxes on the rich - and giving more support to the poor. That is not 'sharing' responsibility. That is relegating responsibility of financing to one group - while attempting to make the plights of another group less - ah - suffered. Or - it's taking one's responsibility, running from it, and dumping it off on others.

    That - to me - sings of French revolutionism in it's beginnings.

    Per people's influence - unfortunately - yes, money does in some twisted way mean more power and influence - moer along the lines of buying favoritism, brown nosing and lobbying one's personal goals through the legislation system (etc) - but everyone can and Obama winning the last election shows this is truth: what you lack in money as an individual can be made up for if you gain numbers.
    Fair enough, but no, not more responsibility on some. I should have first said do away with the income tax, then replace it with consumption tax of sorts. That way, everyone shares the burden.
    Again, the way I see it, consumption, other than basic necessities like groceries and housing, isn't bringing much revenue.
    One has argued that money in people's pockets increases revenue, but with mostly foreign manufacturers, one must wonder in who's pockets the revenue goes.

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    Re: Should the rich get a more positive thinking?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovebug View Post
    What you say makes sense, as well as what the next poster brings up, the fact that the 'rich' have ways and means to transfer their money elsewhere.

    But hear me out.
    I am not for raising taxes, but more for shared responsibility. If only part of our citizens (47%, was is?) pays income tax, while the rest shares little or no responsibility, that means that those who don't pay have no stake in how, where, and how much money is spend.
    If everyone, though i.e. a consumption tax, pays an equal share, everyone has an interest as to how the funds are allocated.

    Without such tax, money is taken away from the American taxpayer, and is being spent on mostly foreign goods, leaving little or nothing where it should go, back into the hands of the American people.
    You must remember though that something like the bottom 50% have about 3% of the entire US wealth pie to split amongst each other. 3% bottom 50, 97% for the top 50. That's a huge disparity!

    I don't think taxation is going to be the solution to this problem (tax rich, give to poor), but I certainly don't think we need to discuss why the bottom 47% don't pay any income taxes. Especially when they are still subject to the same payroll taxes, & state/local taxes - including sales taxes - as the rest of everyone....

    But we should, however, make sure our welfare programs have good mechanisms that encourage people to GET OFF eventually (sooner vs later) and contribute, rather than depend on government money for the rest of their lives, their kids lives, ect.
    Last edited by David D.; 08-29-11 at 09:58 AM.

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    Re: Should the rich get a more positive thinking?

    The poor worry more about added taxation to the rich than the rich do. That right there speaks volumes.

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    Re: Should the rich get a more positive thinking?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bergslagstroll View Post
    The richest people in your country USA, have gotten a drastic increase in their income during the last 30 years compared to middle and lower class. Soo should the rich be more happy over that and less sad about how much tax they have to paid and also less afraid of new taxes? Easy yes and no question.

    http://www.cbo.gov/publications/coll...tax_income.pdf
    First, your entire post is based on a false premise that somehow it was unfair that the rich benefited more from tax cuts over the past 30 years than the middle or lower class, in terms of how much more income they gained. This assumes that somehow the three classes were losing relatively equal amounts of their income to the government prior to the tax cuts if one is to really suggest it wasn't fair. However, that was simply not the case. The rich, over 30 years ago, were losing a vastly larger amount and percentage of their income to taxes than the lower classes were. As such, of course they'd benefit more in a direct fashion than any other class in a direct fashion.

    Second, why should the fact that they benefited more from rates being dropped mean they should be less "afraid" of new taxes? Specificaly new taxes that directly and purposefully target them? Why should they ignore their place within the realm of tax burden simply because compared to 30 years ago they're in a better spot?

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