View Poll Results: What would a welfare that rewards self-sufficiency look like? Select all that apply:

Voters
15. You may not vote on this poll
  • 1.) It would not allow recipients more than is needed to survive

    7 46.67%
  • 2.) The reward for getting off welfare would be: recipients could afford more than necessities

    3 20.00%
  • 3.) programs would be temporary (recipients can only be on welfare for a certain period)

    11 73.33%
  • 4.) It would grant small monetary payouts for every step forward

    6 40.00%
  • 5.) Recipients would experience a sufficiently higher standard of living after getting off welfare

    6 40.00%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 5 of 17 FirstFirst ... 3456715 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 163

Thread: Is it possible to create a welfare system that rewards people to be self-sufficient?

  1. #41
    Guru

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:06 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    3,206

    Re: Is it possible to create a welfare system that rewards people to be self-sufficie

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    couldn't find them there...although i think the average household that receives welfare has 2.8 people. small, in other words.
    That site gave you the number of people per family size. Using the stats, the average household could be determined.

  2. #42
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    29,036

    Re: Is it possible to create a welfare system that rewards people to be self-sufficie

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Additionally, most on the system learn very quickly that it pays more to work a low-income job and stay on welfare than it does to seek a higher paying job and lose benefits. So they work low-skill, low-pay positions so that they meet qualifications without losing benefits.
    Why shouldn't people try to get healthcare, especially if they have children, any way they can? If you can get Medicaid for your children working for $9/hr or take a job for say $12/hr with no benefits or health insurance that you have to pay around $10K annually, which would you take? Because that raise of $3/hr is not going to be nearly enough to cover the annual cost of your health insurance.

    This is why a NHS would be better than what we have now altogether. Then you don't have to worry about someone giving up a pretty significant pay raise if it means they would lose something like healthcare coverage for their kids.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  3. #43
    Bring us a shrubbery!
    tessaesque's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Plano, Texas
    Last Seen
    11-09-17 @ 06:18 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    15,910

    Re: Is it possible to create a welfare system that rewards people to be self-sufficie

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Why shouldn't people try to get healthcare, especially if they have children, any way they can? If you can get Medicaid for your children working for $9/hr or take a job for say $12/hr with no benefits or health insurance that you have to pay around $10K annually, which would you take? Because that raise of $3/hr is not going to be nearly enough to cover the annual cost of your health insurance.

    This is why a NHS would be better than what we have now altogether. Then you don't have to worry about someone giving up a pretty significant pay raise if it means they would lose something like healthcare coverage for their kids.
    Government run healthcare isn't free. You'll pay as much in taxes for "free" healthcare as you will for private insurance. I'd rather we focus on encourage self-growth and getting them out of that low-skill rut, so that they can find a job w/decent benefits that will allow for self-sufficience.

    The solution does not have to be more government.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


  4. #44
    Advisor Just1Voice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Last Seen
    07-20-13 @ 12:15 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    389

    Re: Is it possible to create a welfare system that rewards people to be self-sufficie

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    You can't really prove it happens, but it does. No woman is going to say, "Yes, officer, I had the two little ones because I needed those benefits". I know two women in Michigan who intentionally had babies to prolong their benefits, so I've seen it happen. Does that mean every mom does it? No. Is it an argument for revising the system? Perhaps. More children means more difficulty in finding and keeping work. Part of decentivizing welfare means we should encourage decreased family size until such time as the parents are self-sufficient. I loathe to mention it, but free birth control (not the pill, more likely Mirena, since it lasts 5 years and requires little upkeep) is definitely something that needs to be put on the table.
    While I would be inclined to agree, I can tell you that such a program must needs be purely voluntary. I have spoken about such a plan with a number of people and I consistently get an almost violently negative reaction when putting it to parents who did not intend to have their kids when they had them. Go figure.

  5. #45
    Bring us a shrubbery!
    tessaesque's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Plano, Texas
    Last Seen
    11-09-17 @ 06:18 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    15,910

    Re: Is it possible to create a welfare system that rewards people to be self-sufficie

    Quote Originally Posted by Just1Voice View Post
    While I would be inclined to agree, I can tell you that such a program must needs be purely voluntary. I have spoken about such a plan with a number of people and I consistently get an almost violently negative reaction when putting it to parents who did not intend to have their kids when they had them. Go figure.
    Here's the "voluntary" aspect: You either accept the birth control or accept that any further children will result in social-services involvement and no increase in benefits.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


  6. #46
    Advisor Just1Voice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Last Seen
    07-20-13 @ 12:15 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    389

    Re: Is it possible to create a welfare system that rewards people to be self-sufficie

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Incapacitating mental disorders are a disability but things like anxiety disorder or wanting to be a hermit, I don't consider to be disabilities worthy of public support.

    We all have baggage of some sort that we carry around. This is why I actually favor insurance companies doing genetic screening. There is no perfect genome. We all have to put up with something. Someone has a greater predisposition to breast cancer, someone else has a greater predisposition towards heart disease, etc. Some people have a greater predisposition to being bipolar and others towards depression. We all have to make our way in life with the cards that we've been dealt. It doesn't have to be an easy path. That however doesn't mean that if we are born particularly unlucky that we should just starve. If someone is suffering from severe schizophrenia, then I support society offering a helping hand because this person is severely handicapped in that they can't really function in reality. Not liking to be in public and around groups of people may make for unpleasant experiences when one is forced every morning to get up and go to work and to be around people and feel uncomfortable all day long, but society shouldn't be paying people welfare just so they can avoid discomfort in their lives. I don't want people to starve if they can't work, I don't really care if they are uncomfortable while working.
    There is a condition called "learned helplessness" which I guess quite a few people suffer. It's not debilitating in a physical sense, nor does it leave one intellectually compromised, but those who suffer from it often end up in a bad way because at some point due to environmental circumstances that were beyond their control (usually in infancy or very early childhood) their brains were wired to make them reticent to take any action that might benefit them. It can be overcome, but often it takes years of therapy, which is costly in its own right. So what do you do with such people? Let them rot, or see to it they get what they need in order to be able to live as a productive part of society again?

  7. #47
    Educator

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    08-15-13 @ 01:41 AM
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    1,034

    Re: Is it possible to create a welfare system that rewards people to be self-sufficie

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Incapacitating mental disorders are a disability but things like anxiety disorder or wanting to be a hermit, I don't consider to be disabilities worthy of public support.
    O.K .. I definitely believe that everyone has some level (at least some degree above zero) of a disorder .. technically all disorders that are diagnosed should only be diagnosed if they are severe enough to significantly interfere with daily functioning .. so I believe truly valid disorders (everything except mild versions of disorder such as Adjustment Disorder) signify a disability; however, a good amount of individuals with disabilities can contribute to society in some sort of fashion

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    We all have baggage of some sort that we carry around. This is why I actually favor insurance companies doing genetic screening. There is no perfect genome.
    Seriously? I totally disagree; insurance companies are supposed to make enough money off people with no or fewer disorders in order to make up for losses accrued via highly disordered individuals

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    We all have to put up with something. Someone has a greater predisposition to breast cancer, someone else has a greater predisposition towards heart disease, etc. Some people have a greater predisposition to being bipolar and others towards depression. We all have to make our way in life with the cards that we've been dealt. It doesn't have to be an easy path. That however doesn't mean that if we are born particularly unlucky that we should just starve. If someone is suffering from severe schizophrenia, then I support society offering a helping hand because this person is severely handicapped in that they can't really function in reality.
    Yeah, I agree

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Not liking to be in public and around groups of people may make for unpleasant experiences when one is forced every morning to get up and go to work and to be around people and feel uncomfortable all day long, but society shouldn't be paying people welfare just so they can avoid discomfort in their lives. I don't want people to starve if they can't work, I don't really care if they are uncomfortable while working.
    Good point - I do support therapies that help people have less suffering though

  8. #48
    Guru
    celticwar17's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:59 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    4,911

    Re: Is it possible to create a welfare system that rewards people to be self-sufficie

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Just a point of record: In Texas, AC isn't a luxury. It's a necessity. The heat here can be (and is) deadly.
    Migrate for the summer?

  9. #49
    Educator

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    08-15-13 @ 01:41 AM
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    1,034

    Re: Is it possible to create a welfare system that rewards people to be self-sufficie

    Quote Originally Posted by Just1Voice View Post
    There is a condition called "learned helplessness" which I guess quite a few people suffer. It's not debilitating in a physical sense, nor does it leave one intellectually compromised, but those who suffer from it often end up in a bad way because at some point due to environmental circumstances that were beyond their control (usually in infancy or very early childhood) their brains were wired to make them reticent to take any action that might benefit them. It can be overcome, but often it takes years of therapy, which is costly in its own right. So what do you do with such people? Let them rot, or see to it they get what they need in order to be able to live as a productive part of society again?
    My opinion is that we should see to it that they get the support they need

  10. #50
    Bring us a shrubbery!
    tessaesque's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Plano, Texas
    Last Seen
    11-09-17 @ 06:18 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    15,910

    Re: Is it possible to create a welfare system that rewards people to be self-sufficie

    Quote Originally Posted by Just1Voice View Post
    There is a condition called "learned helplessness" which I guess quite a few people suffer. It's not debilitating in a physical sense, nor does it leave one intellectually compromised, but those who suffer from it often end up in a bad way because at some point due to environmental circumstances that were beyond their control (usually in infancy or very early childhood) their brains were wired to make them reticent to take any action that might benefit them. It can be overcome, but often it takes years of therapy, which is costly in its own right. So what do you do with such people? Let them rot, or see to it they get what they need in order to be able to live as a productive part of society again?
    Prevention is key. I think college should include child development classes.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


Page 5 of 17 FirstFirst ... 3456715 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •