View Poll Results: What would a welfare that rewards self-sufficiency look like? Select all that apply:

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  • 1.) It would not allow recipients more than is needed to survive

    7 46.67%
  • 2.) The reward for getting off welfare would be: recipients could afford more than necessities

    3 20.00%
  • 3.) programs would be temporary (recipients can only be on welfare for a certain period)

    11 73.33%
  • 4.) It would grant small monetary payouts for every step forward

    6 40.00%
  • 5.) Recipients would experience a sufficiently higher standard of living after getting off welfare

    6 40.00%
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Thread: Is it possible to create a welfare system that rewards people to be self-sufficient?

  1. #111
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    Re: Is it possible to create a welfare system that rewards people to be self-sufficie

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Are you disputing the notion that adding more workers to the low skill labor pool increases worker supply and thus decreases wage rates for low skill workers?
    Given that we have minimum wage laws, it can only suppress the wage so much. I don't believe that it would be a significant suppression.

    In addition, it should have no effect on MEDIAN HH income. The median is not affected by outliers. However, in your faulty argument, you claim otherwise.
    Last edited by Antiderivative; 08-26-11 at 04:11 AM.

  2. #112
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    Re: Is it possible to create a welfare system that rewards people to be self-sufficie

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    I've been on welfare (the dependent of an adult recipient). I'm aware of the Texas and Michigan qualifications for welfare. "Temporary" varies from state to state and time constraints can be loosened or eliminated with the introduction of a new baby, the loss of a job, or other "life events". You can be cut off after reaching the time limit only to reapply and begin receiving checks again a few months later. Additionally, most on the system learn very quickly that it pays more to work a low-income job and stay on welfare than it does to seek a higher paying job and lose benefits. So they work low-skill, low-pay positions so that they meet qualifications without losing benefits.

    It isn't about being "deadbeats". It's about exploiting the flaws in the system to provide the most advantageous situation possible. The legislators built a system that allows for a lot of exploitation and provides little means of making a non-welfare life very appealing.

    Nobody here was even saying that recipients are deadbeats, or dishonest, or abusing the system.

    This entire thread was about how to make life after welfare more appealing and more productive than the current system allows.
    One cannot argue that the system encourages people to stay on welfare - you are completely right that " to make life after welfare more appealing and more productive than the current system allows" - the problem is not the current safety features of welfare though, it's the fact that there are mechanisms that instead of rewarding advancement, punish it. For example abrupt welfare curt-offs based on a specific income level. These issues need to be fixed via a slow, progressive weening off the system, rewards need to be placed for those that advance, the uber-wealthy need to pick up their share, wages need to be reconsidered and outsourcing may need to be controlled via not allowing businesses to pay less than minimum wage outside the country - or something to that effect - if this doesn't happen - we won't see any major shifts off welfare unless the uber-wealthy pad pockets and the knowledgeable buy into flat tax or "trickle down" type propaganda, convincing political leaders to make poor policies which would unnecessarily force more people onto the streets.

  3. #113
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    Re: Is it possible to create a welfare system that rewards people to be self-sufficie

    Quote Originally Posted by Just1Voice View Post
    Now this really is humorous. Look at the numbers sometime. The people whose "pockets are being picked" most are the ones who are clamoring for increased taxes. The way the government apportions tax revenues to the states really is wealth re-distribution.. not to people, but to the states, and to conservative states in particular. Meanwhile you don't hear the good people of Massachusetts screaming that they should be able to keep their own income tax revenues in their state (and if they did, it would be quite a lot more money poured into that state). No, they don't share your views, and you should be thankful. If your conservative reactionary friends get their way, you will get to see the states containing the majority of your own base constituency go bankrupt.
    It is hard to take Republican "rugged individualism" seriously when most Red States are welfare states feeding off of Blue States.

    If we ended welfare, then Red States would be the most affected.
    Last edited by Antiderivative; 08-26-11 at 04:14 AM.

  4. #114
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    Re: Is it possible to create a welfare system that rewards people to be self-sufficie

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    You're misunderstanding. I'm not expecting the religious to pick up the tab. You wrote that the religious would object to the policy. My response is that if they object to a cost saving policy then they can step in and make up the shortfall. It's easy to object to things when other people get stuck with the bill. If they are making a principled objection then they can sacrifice their own welfare in order to uphold their principle.

    I generously support the charities of my choosing. I don't ask you to support them and then shirk my own obligation to give.
    And I don't want to support certain much higher spending endeavors such as the war on marijuana and the war on various oil harboring countries .. but I have to pay taxes for it to be done anyway!

  5. #115
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    Re: Is it possible to create a welfare system that rewards people to be self-sufficie

    Right wing reactionaries hate welfare so much that they took action in Florida by drug testing welfare recipients.

    Guess how much this will save the state? Nothing, but it will put them in the hole by $178 million dollars.
    Only 2% of welfare applicants in Florida failed drug tests | The Raw Story

  6. #116
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    Re: Is it possible to create a welfare system that rewards people to be self-sufficie

    Quote Originally Posted by Just1Voice View Post
    Now this really is humorous. Look at the numbers sometime. The people whose "pockets are being picked" most are the ones who are clamoring for increased taxes.
    Who wants increased taxes on themselves and not me? Liberals? The poor? The middle class? Who? Lets ignore who gets what today because they clearly do not want increased taxes on themselves.

    The way the government apportions tax revenues to the states really is wealth re-distribution.. not to people, but to the states, and to conservative states in particular.
    Oh so the conservative states get the money. Yes? So when liberal states ask for money, which is often, you overlook it?

    Meanwhile you don't hear the good people of Massachusetts screaming that they should be able to keep their own income tax revenues in their state (and if they did, it would be quite a lot more money poured into that state). No, they don't share your views, and you should be thankful.
    I'm guessing liberal states don't ask for money ever. I will be sure to tell California they are doing it wrong.

    If your conservative reactionary friends get their way, you will get to see the states containing the majority of your own base constituency go bankrupt.
    My own base constituency? Who is my base constituency exactly?

    Also I enjoy how you used a red herring as if I supported it or that it somehow made what you are doing better. Cute.

  7. #117
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    Re: Is it possible to create a welfare system that rewards people to be self-sufficie

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    He has the right to have his taxes go towards things that are for him. Like I do, like you do, like we all. If people are suffering in this world and you care for them using my money to help them is not representation in taxes. If you wish to help them you can use your own money to do it and leave my money and his money alone. If you think that makes me selfish, so be it. I really don't give a ****. So I'm selfish with MY MONEY, who cares. You are selfish with MY money too. The difference is its MY MONEY and not yours.
    MINE, MINE, MINE ... where have I heard that before .. oh yeah, from selfish 2 year olds (they can't help it though)

    I've never seen a bigger group of whiners when it comes to paying taxes. Listen guys, there are lots of things I don't want to see my tax dollars go to, but they go there anyway .. if you want to change it, then start a movement about it .. if you hate the poor so much .. go ahead, start a petition, drive those poor people farther into the ground .. I'm going to focus my energy on leaving the poor alone and lobbying against useless spending like the "war on marijuana and hemp", our government encouraged addiction to foreign fuel sources, our excessive military occupation and so on .. stop trying to pick on the little guys and pick a good fight for once!
    Last edited by MusicAdventurer; 08-26-11 at 04:24 AM.

  8. #118
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    Re: Is it possible to create a welfare system that rewards people to be self-sufficie

    Quote Originally Posted by Antiderivative
    It is hard to take Republican "rugged individualism" seriously when most Red States are welfare states feeding off of Blue States.

    If we ended welfare, then Red States would be the most affected.
    I'm a republican? Do you guys ever bother to look at leans?
    Last edited by Henrin; 08-26-11 at 04:26 AM.

  9. #119
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    Re: Is it possible to create a welfare system that rewards people to be self-sufficie

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I'm a republican? Do you guys ever bother to look at leans?
    You come off as a libertarian that espouses right wing talking points, as does RiverDad. It is not uncommon to find libertarians that lean heavily to the right.

    I am sorry for implying that you were a Republican, but you espouse right wing talking points.

    I also lean heavily towards libertarianism, but I am from the left, so your point........?
    Last edited by Antiderivative; 08-26-11 at 04:33 AM.

  10. #120
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    Re: Is it possible to create a welfare system that rewards people to be self-sufficie

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    MINE, MINE, MINE ... where have I heard that before .. oh yeah, from selfish 2 year olds (they can't help it though)
    I'm sorry you need my money for your wants and desires. Maybe you should should pay for them and take some responsibly for your own wants and desires?

    I've never seen a bigger group of whiners when it comes to paying taxes. Listen guys, there are lots of things I don't want to see my tax dollars go to, but they go there anyway .. if you want to change it, then start a movement about it .. if you hate the poor so much .. go ahead, start a petition, drive those poor people farther into the ground .. I'm going to focus my energy on leaving the poor alone and lobbying against useless spending like the "war on marijuana and hemp", our government encouraged addiction to foreign fuel sources, our excessive military occupation and so on .. stop trying to pick on the little guys and pick a good fight for once!
    Have you ever seen some of my posts? You really should and you will see I don't pick on the poor as much as I pick fights with things across the board. I have no wants and desires from government other than police, military, courts and a money supply.

    I'm sorry you need, but asking me goes a long way.

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