View Poll Results: What would a welfare that rewards self-sufficiency look like? Select all that apply:

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  • 1.) It would not allow recipients more than is needed to survive

    7 46.67%
  • 2.) The reward for getting off welfare would be: recipients could afford more than necessities

    3 20.00%
  • 3.) programs would be temporary (recipients can only be on welfare for a certain period)

    11 73.33%
  • 4.) It would grant small monetary payouts for every step forward

    6 40.00%
  • 5.) Recipients would experience a sufficiently higher standard of living after getting off welfare

    6 40.00%
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Thread: Is it possible to create a welfare system that rewards people to be self-sufficient?

  1. #101
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    Re: Is it possible to create a welfare system that rewards people to be self-sufficie

    Quote Originally Posted by Antiderivative View Post
    That is why I called your argument absurd.
    Are you disputing the notion that adding more workers to the low skill labor pool increases worker supply and thus decreases wage rates for low skill workers?

  2. #102
    Advisor Just1Voice's Avatar
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    Re: Is it possible to create a welfare system that rewards people to be self-sufficie

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    So who exactly is caring as the taxpayer's pockets get picked? Who weeps for us? If someone wants the State to help them out then the choice is entirely theirs. If they don't agree, then that's fine. They can go to your house and ask to live with you.

    As for the religious groups, this would be a perfect opportunity for them to help the needy. I'm a big booster of putting one's money where one's mouth is.
    I think you are never going to get it. Who weeps for you? I do. But not because your "pocket is being picked." Because you have divorced yourself from humanity. You aren't religious, but you expect them to pick up the tab? You must know by now that you have just boiled down your argument to "I have a right to be a selfish curmudgeon, and I intend to execute that right no matter who it hurts."

  3. #103
    Stigmatized! End R Word! Kali's Avatar
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    Re: Is it possible to create a welfare system that rewards people to be self-sufficie

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    I've been on welfare (the dependent of an adult recipient). I'm aware of the Texas and Michigan qualifications for welfare. "Temporary" varies from state to state and time constraints can be loosened or eliminated with the introduction of a new baby, the loss of a job, or other "life events". You can be cut off after reaching the time limit only to reapply and begin receiving checks again a few months later. Additionally, most on the system learn very quickly that it pays more to work a low-income job and stay on welfare than it does to seek a higher paying job and lose benefits. So they work low-skill, low-pay positions so that they meet qualifications without losing benefits.

    It isn't about being "deadbeats". It's about exploiting the flaws in the system to provide the most advantageous situation possible. The legislators built a system that allows for a lot of exploitation and provides little means of making a non-welfare life very appealing.

    Nobody here was even saying that recipients are deadbeats, or dishonest, or abusing the system.

    This entire thread was about how to make life after welfare more appealing and more productive than the current system allows.
    Sure.. Those folks on welfare really want to work a lowpaying job over some HIGH paying job all cause they want some foodstamps and/or the check. NOT! You are sterotyping and assuming a lot about people you do not even know.
    ~Following My Own Flow~

  4. #104
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    Re: Is it possible to create a welfare system that rewards people to be self-sufficie

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    So who exactly is caring as the taxpayer's pockets get picked? Who weeps for us? If someone wants the State to help them out then the choice is entirely theirs. If they don't agree, then that's fine. They can go to your house and ask to live with you.

    As for the religious groups, this would be a perfect opportunity for them to help the needy. I'm a big booster of putting one's money where one's mouth is.

    That's funny. You have a talent. Keep developing it.
    If you make $250k or above, what are you crying about buddy? Just admit it making that kind of money has no downside whatsoever, other than the fact that the uber-wealthy pay a less crippling tax rate. If anyone should take the brunt of any tax burden anger or resentment it should be the uber-wealthy, not the middle class who pay way more than their relative share in taxes and certainly not the lower class who don't have any skin left to spare .. get your perspective straight buddy!

  5. #105
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    Re: Is it possible to create a welfare system that rewards people to be self-sufficie

    Quote Originally Posted by Just1Voice View Post
    You aren't religious, but you expect them to pick up the tab?
    You're misunderstanding. I'm not expecting the religious to pick up the tab. You wrote that the religious would object to the policy. My response is that if they object to a cost saving policy then they can step in and make up the shortfall. It's easy to object to things when other people get stuck with the bill. If they are making a principled objection then they can sacrifice their own welfare in order to uphold their principle.

    I generously support the charities of my choosing. I don't ask you to support them and then shirk my own obligation to give.

  6. #106
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    Re: Is it possible to create a welfare system that rewards people to be self-sufficie

    I am so damn sick of people acting as if folks living on welfare and in the projects have it made when it is not the case. Sure living up in a gang infested hood and getting just enough food to get by each month is REALLY living! The hell it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    ~Following My Own Flow~

  7. #107
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    Re: Is it possible to create a welfare system that rewards people to be self-sufficie

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    WHY is it absurd? Argument by assertion isn't convincing.
    There were poor long before these immigrants arrived. People have been making that argument for ages, and the real truth is that our immigrant population is a strength, not a weakness. The people who migrate to the US are ambitious. If they weren't they'd never make the effort. These immigrants that you hate so much are just the kind of hard workers you keep saying you want, and still you blame them for our ills. Open your eyes.

  8. #108
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    Re: Is it possible to create a welfare system that rewards people to be self-sufficie

    Quote Originally Posted by Just1Voice View Post
    I think you are never going to get it. Who weeps for you? I do. But not because your "pocket is being picked." Because you have divorced yourself from humanity. You aren't religious, but you expect them to pick up the tab? You must know by now that you have just boiled down your argument to "I have a right to be a selfish curmudgeon, and I intend to execute that right no matter who it hurts."
    He has the right to have his taxes go towards things that are for him. Like I do, like you do, like we all. If people are suffering in this world and you care for them using my money to help them is not representation in taxes. If you wish to help them you can use your own money to do it and leave my money and his money alone. If you think that makes me selfish, so be it. I really don't give a ****. So I'm selfish with MY MONEY, who cares. You are selfish with MY money too. The difference is its MY MONEY and not yours.

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    Re: Is it possible to create a welfare system that rewards people to be self-sufficie

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    WHY is it absurd? Argument by assertion isn't convincing.
    Look who's talking - as for Antiderivative's argument, all I saw was reason based ethical economic argument (considering the context and previous reasoning provided by Antiderivative)

  10. #110
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    Re: Is it possible to create a welfare system that rewards people to be self-sufficie

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    He has the right to have his taxes go towards things that are for him. Like I do, like you do, like we all. If people are suffering in this world and you care for them using my money to help them is not representation in taxes. If you wish to help them you can use your own money to do it and leave my money and his money alone. If you think that makes me selfish, so be it. I really don't give a ****. So I'm selfish with MY MONEY, who cares. You are selfish with MY money too. The difference is its MY MONEY and not yours.
    Now this really is humorous. Look at the numbers sometime. The people whose "pockets are being picked" most are the ones who are clamoring for increased taxes. The way the government apportions tax revenues to the states really is wealth re-distribution.. not to people, but to the states, and to conservative states in particular. Meanwhile you don't hear the good people of Massachusetts screaming that they should be able to keep their own income tax revenues in their state (and if they did, it would be quite a lot more money poured into that state). No, they don't share your views, and you should be thankful. If your conservative reactionary friends get their way, you will get to see the states containing the majority of your own base constituency go bankrupt.

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