View Poll Results: Why is the middle class the most crippled by income tax? Select all that apply

Voters
84. You may not vote on this poll
  • Allowing many people to have a shot at being uber-wealthy is dangerous

    1 1.19%
  • Making the uber-wealthy share the load would be bad for the economy

    0 0%
  • The middle class do not have as much of an influence on politics as the wealthy do

    30 35.71%
  • The idea that the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax is a myth

    54 64.29%
  • A few wealthy, a few more middle class and many lower class citizens is best

    3 3.57%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 1 of 47 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 465

Thread: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

  1. #1
    Educator

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    08-15-13 @ 01:41 AM
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    1,034

    Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    It has been shown that the middle class pays the most crippling amount of income taxes and the middle class is relatively small. Crippling means that the ratio of living expenses to income tax makes it so that despite one’s increased income, the standard of living has not gone up much and there is still significant hardship. It is clear that most making above $250,000 are not crippled by income tax and instead cannot wrap their minds around the concept of progressive taxation (even though the wealthiest find loopholes out of such taxation). So, why is this the case? Why does the middle class shoulder the largest relative tax burden?

  2. #2
    Bring us a shrubbery!
    tessaesque's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Plano, Texas
    Last Seen
    11-09-17 @ 06:18 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    15,910

    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Hyperbole, you haz it.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


  3. #3
    Bring us a shrubbery!
    tessaesque's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Plano, Texas
    Last Seen
    11-09-17 @ 06:18 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    15,910

    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    And to address the general question, "Why are their so many damned taxes?", the answer would be because we expect a inordinately high number of services, protections, entitlements, and involvements from the government on our behalf, and the money's gotta come from somewhere. Perhaps if we demanded less from the government we'd see less in taxation...but let's be honest here. If we lowered the "middle class" tax rate to 10% flat and then charged all of the "rich" at 100% we'd still run budget deficits. We'd still run deficits if we took 100% of the income from the "rich" and increased the "middle class" tax rate to 50%. Our path is unsustainable and we're honestly lucky that we haven't seen our tax obligations increase across the board. Many countries take upwards of 60% of earned income in taxes.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


  4. #4
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Theoretical Physics Lab
    Last Seen
    01-06-15 @ 11:06 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    25,120

    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    The middle class is shouldering the largest amount of tax burden?

    Excuse me for a second.

    AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA!

    Anyway, back on subject - you're wrong. You're just so entirely, utterly, unequivocally, astronomically wrong. This is a rant-about-the-rich post. Nothing more.

  5. #5
    Educator

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    08-15-13 @ 01:41 AM
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    1,034

    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    And to address the general question, "Why are their so many damned taxes?"
    While this may be your question, it is not necessarily mine. While I think the government could use revenues more effectively, I am not convinced that this would necessarily mean that less overall taxes is the solution; this is mainly because I am not well versed on every single detail of the budget.

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    the answer would be because we expect a inordinately high number of services, protections, entitlements, and involvements from the government on our behalf, and the money's gotta come from somewhere.
    Are you saying that citizens shouldn't push for the best country they can?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    If we lowered the "middle class" tax rate to 10% flat and then charged all of the "rich" at 100% we'd still run budget deficits.
    Perhaps .. I am of the opinion that if the wealthy were taxed at 100% (which is obviously a gross exaggeration on your part, lol!) we would have a very large government ... it power would rival that of the current corporations.

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Many countries take upwards of 60% of earned income in taxes.
    So, using your reasoning, we should continue to allow the middle class to shoulder the tax burden simply because other countries are immoral? Please tell me this is not what you are saying ...

  6. #6
    Sage
    mike2810's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    arizona
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:34 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    15,012

    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    [QUOTE=MusicAdventurer;1059747416]It has been shown that the middle class pays the most crippling amount of income taxes and the middle class is relatively small. Crippling means that the ratio of living expenses to income tax makes it so that despite one’s increased income, the standard of living has not gone up much and there is still significant hardship. It is clear that most making above $250,000 are not crippled by income tax and instead cannot wrap their minds around the concept of progressive taxation (even though the wealthiest find loopholes out of such taxation). So, why is this the case? Why does the middle class shoulder the largest relative tax burden?[/QUOTE]

    if you believe news sources like msnbc, it may be because 46% of Americans pay no federal income tax. That leaves the "middle class" and the "rich" to pay for all the programs not covered by other taxes.
    Where to do get the fact that the "middle class" is relatively small? Can you provide data sources for some of the statements, or is it you opinion?
    "I can explain it to you but, I can't understand it for you"

  7. #7
    Bring us a shrubbery!
    tessaesque's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Plano, Texas
    Last Seen
    11-09-17 @ 06:18 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    15,910

    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    While this may be your question, it is not necessarily mine. While I think the government could use revenues more effectively, I am not convinced that this would necessarily mean that less overall taxes is the solution; this is mainly because I am not well versed on every single detail of the budget.



    Are you saying that citizens shouldn't push for the best country they can?



    Perhaps .. I am of the opinion that if the wealthy were taxed at 100% (which is obviously a gross exaggeration on your part, lol!) we would have a very large government ... it power would rival that of the current corporations.



    So, using your reasoning, we should continue to allow the middle class to shoulder the tax burden simply because other countries are immoral? Please tell me this is not what you are saying ...
    I fail to see how "pushing for the best country we can" must automatically involved an increase in government dependency on the part of the people. I don't buy into the class warfare tax finger pointing, so my presence in this thread can't answer to a problem I don't believe exists; I hope you'll understand. My point in my last statement is that for what we receive from the government, everybody's taxes are extremely low. We don't collect enough to provide the services we demand, so we have $1 trillion + deficits every year for the next x-number of years. Realistically, everybody's taxes should be considerably higher...but there is no possible distribution in which the "middle class" would be paying a small enough amount to satisfy those lined up for battle in the class war....especially if we got realistic on the true cost of government spending.

    Every single recognized member of the U.S. population (seniors and children included) would have to contribute over $36k this year to cover projected spending and prevent a deficit. The "rich" make up 1% of the population, and their combined income is only about half of the total expected spending. So if took everything they earned (hypothetically), and then looked to the rest of the population for the rest we'd still be looking at $18k+ per person to fund the government's spending for one year.

    But when the average family's obligation is less than $6k and they receive a good chunk of that back....well...yeah...
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


  8. #8
    Educator

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    08-15-13 @ 01:41 AM
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    1,034

    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    if you believe news sources like msnbc, it may be because 46% of Americans pay no federal income tax. That leaves the "middle class" and the "rich" to pay for all the programs not covered by other taxes. Where to do get the fact that the "middle class" is relatively small? Can you provide data sources for some of the statements, or is it you opinion?
    This has been well supported throughout the threads where sources have been sited several times (although people disagree as to what middle-class means). Of course under all the petty arguments and sources meant to justify one's own opinion, its still all opinions ...

    Do you actually believe that the middle-class is burgeoning?

    Are you also one of those magical thinkers that thinks blood can be squeezed from a turnip?

  9. #9
    Sage
    mike2810's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    arizona
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:34 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    15,012

    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    This has been well supported throughout the threads where sources have been sited several times (although people disagree as to what middle-class means). Of course under all the petty arguments and sources meant to justify one's own opinion, its still all opinions ...

    Do you actually believe that the middle-class is burgeoning?

    Are you also one of those magical thinkers that thinks blood can be squeezed from a turnip?

    what? I was pointing out 46% do not pay federal income tax. That leaves the rest of us. That answers the OP question on why the middle class is taxed as it is.
    Blood no, turnip juice yes.
    I personally believe everyone should pay the same %,
    "I can explain it to you but, I can't understand it for you"

  10. #10
    Educator

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    08-15-13 @ 01:41 AM
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    1,034

    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    what? I was pointing out 46% do not pay federal income tax. That leaves the rest of us. That answers the OP question on why the middle class is taxed as it is.
    Blood no, turnip juice yes.
    I personally believe everyone should pay the same %,
    Well if you were to believe that everyone should pay the same % of income tax, then you would be supporting the wealthier paying in more taxes.

    Why do you feel the wealthy should pay the more taxes?

    Your likely response is that as long as everyone is paying the same percentage then it is fair. Which means you support the wealthy paying more total dollars in taxes and consider this to be fair.

    While you are headed in the right direction, I do not believe you have a complete understanding of what fair means.

    I will demonstrate what I am talking about as so many seem to be lost on the point.

    Lets look at a low income individual or family:

    Lets assume the lowest figures for living expenses are, on average, as follows:

    Rent = $600/mo, $7,200/yr
    Food = $200/mo, $2,400/yr

    Total of $9,600 per year (this is a very low estimate and only includes food and shelter)

    Lets assume that the lowest figures for income is as follows:

    $5/hr at 35 hours per week = $175/wk = 9,100 per year (this is also a low estimate and assumes that the individual or family has a job for a whole year)

    Now lets apply a tax rate of 15% (also a low percentage considering that everyone is at the same tax rate) and we have a net income of $7,735

    Now if we deduct expenses we have a total loss of: $1,865 per year (that's -24% of their net income)

    Now lets look at a wealthy individual or household:

    Again, lets assume the lowest figures for living expenses are, on average, as follows:

    Rent = $600/mo, $7,200/yr
    Food = $200/mo, $2,400/yr

    Total of $9,600 per year (this is a very low estimate and only includes food and shelter)

    Lets assume that the figures for income is as follows:

    $1,000,000 per year

    Now lets apply a tax rate of 15% (also a low percentage considering that everyone is at the same tax rate) and we have a net income of $850,000

    Now if we deduct expenses we have a total surplus of: $840,400 per year (99% of their net income)

    Here we see that relative to living expenses, this individual or household still maintains close to 100% of their net income (after income tax and living expenses), while the lowest income family or individual was actually not able to pay their living expense and went into a debt of 24% of their net income (after income tax and living expenses).

    So who is actually being hurt more here by a flat tax, the low income household or the high income household? Somehow I do not even see turnip juice being sucked out of the low income individual or family ... I dunno maybe I'm missing something ? ? ? How would everyone benefit from this scenario again? ? ? If the low income family is not able to live, there is no-one to do the richy's dirty work.

    such a flat tax would be clearly unfair; a fair tax would be better based on how one's income compares to the lowest average living expenses .. any other way is tyranny (I believe this is why 46% of our country does not pay income tax ... there's nothing to tax! Anyone can see this.) Explain to me how this is not fair again? It never ceases to amaze me when people miss this obvious point. It boggles my mind when people think that a flat tax is somehow fair ... wow .... really? ... wow ...
    Last edited by MusicAdventurer; 08-22-11 at 06:14 PM.

Page 1 of 47 12311 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •