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Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

Why is the middle class the most crippled by income tax? Select all that apply

  • Allowing many people to have a shot at being uber-wealthy is dangerous

    Votes: 1 3.1%

  • Making the uber-wealthy share the load would be bad for the economy

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • The middle class do not have as much of an influence on politics as the wealthy do

    Votes: 24 75.0%

  • The idea that the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax is a myth

    Votes: 9 28.1%

  • A few wealthy, a few more middle class and many lower class citizens is best

    Votes: 2 6.3%
  • Total voters
    32
TheDemSocialist said:
Uhhh sorry that i dont carry around one of those...


Well those are talkingpoints are they not.. You asked this: "If you could link to where you're reading them, to then compare my statements to them and conclude I'm speaking talking points, I would sincerely appreciate it." I provided it....
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Well yeah you sourced some people saying things, but I was looking for an actual talking-points format, like you see real talking points actually presented for like a comity meeting or similar.

I was hopping to subscribe to it and use it as source material to troll in the future, citing it like an actual objective source and watch people like you go bananas. So much fun :mrgreen:

I used to troll the left here with NARTH, but it's lost it's edge.
 
Catawba said:
Are you familiar with the rule of law in this country? What you wish to be true and what is true are two different things.
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have forgotten more law than you will ever know but claiming because something is law that precludes all argument on the merits is statist and mindless.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Uhhhhh no its not.... No where does it say that income tax was supposed to be temporary... It was on the table to be temporary but in the end it was decided not be temporary.

Turtle this is how i view your tax ideas:
"My taxes are to high, everyone else is a freeloader." We say: "Turtle you do realize that taxes are at a historic low." You say: "Everyone that wants to raise taxes, is igniting class warfare, and a bunch of welfare socialists, and no they are not remember in the 1700's when it was 0%!" We say: "Turtle is a proven fact that are at historic lows, sense taxes were higher around the 1940's to the 1990's were the rich oppressed and was class warfare going on then?" Turtle says: "FREE LOADER! SOCIALIST! 51% of people didn't even pay taxes!" Then we all go :doh
Oh and then we have a good laugh :lamo
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You really don't have the ability to do that.

the main argument is that in the long run, a system that allows people to vote up taxes on other people is doomed to fail because the majority becomes addicted to others being forced to pay for stuff the majority wants. The majority becomes lazy and indolent and one day the bill becomes too big. Sort of like what we have now.

or to paraphrase a well known adage: Democracy fails once the masses learn they can vote themselves the content of the public treasury
 
Somalia is an inch away from rule under Sharia law. Their neighbor, Ethiopia, is probably closer to true libertarianism - and only because they're borderline anarcho-capitalist, which very few true libertarians want.
 
TurtleDude said:
have forgotten more law than you will ever know but claiming because something is law that precludes all argument on the merits is statist and mindless.
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You say that but your posts show ignorance of the law. Rule of law in this country is what we are all obliged to follow. I have no interest in your whining that you shouldn't have to follow the rule of law like everyone else.
 
Catawba said:
You say that but your posts show ignorance of the law. Rule of law in this country is what we are all obliged to follow. I have no interest in your whining that you shouldn't have to follow the rule of law like everyone else.
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Lke Haymarket you think that once a law is passed that precludes disagreement with it or advocacy that it ought to be changed or set aside. That is the real ignorance. its also robotic statist obedience-a common status for leftwing fans of big government
 
TurtleDude said:
Lke Haymarket you think that once a law is passed that precludes disagreement with it or advocacy that it ought to be changed or set aside.
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And in Turtledude land, the way you get a supreme court ruling changed is by whining about it on a political forum? In this country they the way is done is by presenting your case through the courts. But you actually have to have a case to present, which you are lacking of course. :sun
 
Proof of the class war against the middle class:

22 Statistics That Prove The Middle Class Is Being Systematically Wiped Out Of Existence In America


"The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer at a staggering rate. Once upon a time, the United States had the largest and most prosperous middle class in the history of the world, but now that is changing at a blinding pace."

Read more: 22 Statistics That Prove The Middle Class Is Being Systematically Wiped Out Of Existence In America

Some of them are listed below:

"83 percent of all U.S. stocks are in the hands of 1 percent of the people.

66% of the income growth between 2001 and 2007 went to the top 1% of all Americans.

24% of American workers say that they have postponed their planned retirement age in the past year.

Over 1.4 million Americans filed for personal bankruptcy in 2009, which represented a 32 percent increase over 2008.

For the first time in U.S. history, banks own a greater share of residential housing net worth in the United States than all individual Americans put together.

In 1950, the ratio of the average executive's paycheck to the average worker's paycheck was about 30 to 1. Since the year 2000, that ratio has exploded to between 300 to 500 to one.

As of 2007, the bottom 80 percent of American households held about 7% of the liquid financial assets.

The bottom 50 percent of income earners in the United States now collectively own less than 1 percent of the nation’s wealth.

Average Wall Street bonuses for 2009 were up 17 percent when compared with 2008.

The top 1% of U.S. households own nearly twice as much of America's corporate wealth as they did just 15 years ago.

In America today, the average time needed to find a job has risen to a record 35.2 weeks.

More than 40% of Americans who actually are employed are now working in service jobs, which are often very low paying.

For the first time in U.S. history, more than 40 million Americans are on food stamps, and the U.S. Department of Agriculture projects that number will go up to 43 million Americans in 2011.

Approximately 21 percent of all children in the United States are living below the poverty line in 2010 - the highest rate in 20 years.

The top 10% of Americans now earn around 50% of our national income."

Read more: 22 Statistics That Prove The Middle Class Is Being Systematically Wiped Out Of Existence In America
 
that's an interesting set of rants

do you think that once the supreme court issues an opinion that precludes any debate on the merits of the ruling?

Why are people having children they cannot properly raise?

why has the middle class lost so much ambition

do your silly "facts" account for the fact that the top 10% are not the same people day in day out?

so your solution is to tax the rich even more?
 
TurtleDude said:
that's an interesting set of rants

do you think that once the supreme court issues an opinion that precludes any debate on the merits of the ruling?

Why are people having children they cannot properly raise?

why has the middle class lost so much ambition

do your silly "facts" account for the fact that the top 10% are not the same people day in day out?

so your solution is to tax the rich even more?
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Challenging a court decision requires a case built on facts, not opinion, which is all you have provided to back up your "opinion" that the rich are being overtaxed.

It is noted you did not provide any proof to refute the statistics that prove a class war has been waged on the middle class.
 
Catawba said:
Challenging a court decision requires a case built on facts, not opinion, which is all you have provided to back up your "opinion" that the rich are being overtaxed.

It is noted you did not provide any proof to refute the statistics that prove a class war has been waged on the middle class.
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I have a sound basis for saying a group that makes 22% of the income but pays 40% of the income tax is overtaxed given all those in the bottom 95% pay less of the income tax burden than their share of the income

what objective fact can you bring to bear in opposition?
 
TurtleDude said:
I have a sound basis for saying a group that makes 22% of the income but pays 40% of the income tax is overtaxed given all those in the bottom 95% pay less of the income tax burden than their share of the income

what objective fact can you bring to bear in opposition?
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Not interested in your opinions. I provided facts and you have not refuted them. Have you heard of the expression, put up or shut up?
 
Catawba said:
Not interested in your opinions. I provided facts and you have not refuted them. Have you heard of the expression, put up or shut up?
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I have proffered an objective basis for tax fairness. what have you done? whine that the rich need to pay more based on what-envy? you sure haven't ever come close to setting an objective standard. tax fairness-if you make 22% of the income you pay 22% of the income tax is a good way to start. You didn't provide ANY FACTS that suggest that the middle class are paying a crippling amount of income tax. You posted claims that support the OPINION that the middle class is disappearing but contains no solutions and certainly does not demonstrate the faulty premise of this thread
 
Catawba said:
And in Turtledude land, the way you get a supreme court ruling changed is by whining about it on a political forum? In this country they the way is done is by presenting your case through the courts.
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Of course that would be dependent on what lean of the court is at that time if they notice the real meaning behind clauses. What you fail to realize and what the founders knew was the shortcoming of the courts. They knew full well they would be inflicted by self interest and the infection of false premises of what they did. They knew full well you people would come. The thing about rules of the land is no matter how well you do it people will want power over other people.
 
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TurtleDude said:
You really don't have the ability to do that.
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I just did....

the main argument is that in the long run, a system that allows people to vote up taxes on other people is doomed to fail because the majority becomes addicted to others being forced to pay for stuff the majority wants.
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Have any proof of this?

The majority becomes lazy and indolent and one day the bill becomes too big.
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Really?
If the riches taxes are raised everyone becomes lazy?
Ill ask again do you have any proof of this?
Because back in the 40's and 50's the richest taxes were high did we see a lot of "lazy people"?

Sort of like what we have now.
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What? The riches taxes at historic lows? Unemployment high?

or to paraphrase a well known adage: Democracy fails once the masses learn they can vote themselves the content of the public treasury
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So its democracies fault?
 
remind me of the state of our budget right now
 
TheDemSocialist said:
I just did....


Have any proof of this?


Really?
If the riches taxes are raised everyone becomes lazy?
Ill ask again do you have any proof of this?
Because back in the 40's and 50's the richest taxes were high did we see a lot of "lazy people"?


What? The riches taxes at historic lows? Unemployment high?


So its democracies fault?
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historic lows? your grasp of history sucks dude. what was the income tax rates and burden on the rich for more than half our history?
 
TurtleDude said:
historic lows? your grasp of history sucks dude. what was the income tax rates and burden on the rich for more than half our history?
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Here you go Turtle maybe you can figure it out on your own

Year$10,001$20,001$60,001$100,001$250,001
1913 1% 2% 3% 5% 6%
1914 1% 2% 3% 5% 6%
1916 2% 3% 5% 7% 10%
1918 16% 21% 41% 64% 72%
1920 12% 17% 37% 60% 68%
1922 10% 16% 36% 56% 58%
1924 7% 11% 27% 43% 44%
1926 6% 10% 21% 25% 25%
1928 6% 10% 21% 25% 25%
1930 6% 10% 21% 25% 25%
1932 10% 16% 36% 56% 58%
1934 11% 19% 37% 56% 58%
1936 11% 19% 39% 62% 68%
1938 11% 19% 39% 62% 68%
1940 14% 28% 51% 62% 68%
1942 38% 55% 75% 85% 88%
1944 41% 59% 81% 92% 94%
1946 38% 56% 78% 89% 91%
1948 38% 56% 78% 89% 91%
1950 38% 56% 78% 89% 91%
1952 42% 62% 80% 90% 92%
1954 38% 56% 78% 89% 91%
1956 26% 38% 62% 75% 89%
1958 26% 38% 62% 75% 89%
1960 26% 38% 62% 75% 89%
1962 26% 38% 62% 75% 89%
1964 23% 34% 56% 66% 76%
1966 - 1976 22% 32% 53% 62% 70%
1980 18% 24% 54% 59% 70%
1982 16% 22% 49% 50% 50%
1984 14% 18% 42% 45% 50%
1986 14% 18% 38% 45% 50%
1988 15% 15% 28% 28% 28%
1990 15% 15% 28% 28% 28%
1992 15% 15% 28% 28% 31%
1994 15% 15% 28% 31% 39.6%
1996 15% 15% 28% 31% 36%
1998 15% 15% 28% 28% 36%
2000 15% 15% 28% 28% 36%
2002 10% 15% 27% 27% 35%
2004 10% 15% 25% 25% 33%
2006 10% 15% 15% 25% 33%
2008 10% 15% 15% 25% 33%
2010 10% 15% 15% 25% 33%

And you do realize what the term "historic" means and how to keep it in context right?
 
I figured you would ignore the first half of our country's history.
 
TurtleDude said:
I figured you would ignore the first half of our country's history.
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Turtle notice how i say not at "all time low" i said "Historic". All time low for the rich would be at 1913 with 6%... Historic low, look at the words im typing: HISTORIC LOW... Not ALL TIME LOW. But HISTORIC LOW! You do realize what that means right.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Turtle notice how i say not at "all time low" i said "Historic". All time low for the rich would be at 1913 with 6%... Historic low, look at the words im typing: HISTORIC LOW... Not ALL TIME LOW. But HISTORIC LOW! You do realize what that means right.
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More dishonesty. Historic encompasses our history. Its not a historic low these days. that is a dishonest and patently wrong statement. Low was ZERO NADA ZILCH
 
TurtleDude said:
More dishonesty. Historic encompasses our history. Its not a historic low these days. that is a dishonest and patently wrong statement. Low was ZERO NADA ZILCH
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Oh. My. God. Can you not compromise basic facts through your cranium that go against your views and outrageous claims that your taxes are "too damn high" and everyone else is a "free loader"?
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Oh. My. God. Can you not compromise basic facts through your cranium that go against your views and outrageous claims that your taxes are "too damn high" and everyone else is a "free loader"?
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you post something that was blatantly wrong, I correct your dishonest comment and you throw out this sort of nonsense. My taxes are too damn high. I don't get anything extra for paying many times more taxes than the average citizen. I was not GIVEN anything additional by the government yet people like you demand I pay more.
 
TurtleDude said:
you post something that was blatantly wrong, I correct your dishonest comment and you throw out this sort of nonsense.
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All time low of Income tax: 6%
All time high of income tax: 94%

Do you know what historic means Turtle? Answer this... Do you know what historic means? It does not mean all time low. Or all time high. Historic means of, pertaining to, treating, or characteristic of history or past events.

My taxes are too damn high.
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Of course they are everyone thinks that.... :roll:

I don't get anything extra for paying many times more taxes than the average citizen.
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Well if you own a business or what not you do...... But yes you do. Welcome to life TD.

I was not GIVEN anything additional by the government yet people like you demand I pay more.
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Yea you should if you make a lot Turtle its common ****ing sense.
 
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