View Poll Results: Why is the middle class the most crippled by income tax? Select all that apply

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  • Allowing many people to have a shot at being uber-wealthy is dangerous

    1 1.19%
  • Making the uber-wealthy share the load would be bad for the economy

    0 0%
  • The middle class do not have as much of an influence on politics as the wealthy do

    30 35.71%
  • The idea that the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax is a myth

    54 64.29%
  • A few wealthy, a few more middle class and many lower class citizens is best

    3 3.57%
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Thread: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

  1. #31
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    You don't seem to get it. If taxes are so bad on the poor maybe they should not engage in activities that require more and more government action which in turn require OTHERS to pay (and be damaged) by more and more taxes.
    No you don't get it. If taxes are so bad on the rich maybe they should not engage in activities that require more and more government action which in turn require OTHERS to pay (and be damaged) by more and more taxes.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  2. #32
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    No you don't get it. If taxes are so bad on the rich maybe they should not engage in activities that require more and more government action which in turn require OTHERS to pay (and be damaged) by more and more taxes.
    your silly claim has no basis in fact. It would have some merit if each group was paying the same amount of per capita tax. The richest 1% pay 40 times more taxes than a group that actually pays its per capita fair share. Most groups pay far less than their fair share



  3. #33
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    You have shown nothing of the sort. This is another whine about the rich rant

    The top 5% pay more income taxes than the rest of the nation combined. If you count the Middle class as the 2nd, third and fouth quintile (ie 20%-80%) they don't pay anything near what the top 20% pay

    even if you call the middle class those between the 15 and 95 percentile, they still pay less of the FIT than the top 5%

    and they --be they 60% of the country or 80% of the country sure use A LOT MORE GOVERNMENT resources than the rich. and they tetnd to be the group that controls who becomes elected
    The rich pay more because they earn much more, the rich take advantage of offshore tax havens.

  4. #34
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    your silly claim has no basis in fact. It would have some merit if each group was paying the same amount of per capita tax. The richest 1% pay 40 times more taxes than a group that actually pays its per capita fair share. Most groups pay far less than their fair share
    I don't think you understand the concept and how we are defining the problem. We are not looking at the total amount of money taxed but rather the burden that tax has on those that pay taxes whom are below the $250,000 level.

    This was demonstrated in one of my OP's (see link below):

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1059748343
    Last edited by MusicAdventurer; 08-22-11 at 11:17 PM.

  5. #35
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    The rich pay more because they earn much more, the rich take advantage of offshore tax havens.
    how many rich do that? and even if they do they still pay 40% of the income tax and all the death tax

    remind me how much of the income and death tax the bottom 50% pay



  6. #36
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    I don't think you understand the concept and how we are defining the problem. We are not looking at the total amount of money taxed but rather the burden that tax has on those that pay taxes whom are below the $250,000 level.
    I know what you are trying to do-you are trying to justify making those who pay too much taxes pay even more

    tell me why what someone uses has no relevance?


    You do understand that FROM EACH ACCORDING TO THEIR ABILITY is not an argument I find persuasive

    If you cannot afford the level of government you want, you should not demand that level of government



  7. #37
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I know what you are trying to do
    I am trying to explain a moral imperative

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are trying to justify making those who pay too much taxes pay even more
    If that is what given said moral imperative, then that is what should be done, if not then it should not, simple

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    tell me why what someone uses has no relevance?
    It had the same relevance that a minimum wage has .. it was explained in that OP

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    You do understand that FROM EACH ACCORDING TO THEIR ABILITY is not an argument I find persuasive
    If I supported the "FROM EACH ACCORDING TO THEIR ABILITY" argument, I would be arguing that every citizen have equal outcome, i.e. equal income regardless of effort, talent, etc. That is not what I am arguing at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    If you cannot afford the level of government you want, you should not demand that level of government
    This kind of thinking is not democratic, not that a democracy does not have its faults, but I assumed we were operating under the assumption that a democracy was still the current state of government (or at least our semi-democratic system; corporations invariably have more power than the people) .... in an ideal democracy, citizens make educated decisions regarding what is best for the country as a whole, this includes allowing businessmen/women to be free to amass great amounts of wealth .. anything else is tyrannical

  8. #38
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by MusicAdventurer View Post
    While this may be your question, it is not necessarily mine. While I think the government could use revenues more effectively, I am not convinced that this would necessarily mean that less overall taxes is the solution; this is mainly because I am not well versed on every single detail of the budget.



    Are you saying that citizens shouldn't push for the best country they can?



    Perhaps .. I am of the opinion that if the wealthy were taxed at 100% (which is obviously a gross exaggeration on your part, lol!) we would have a very large government ... it power would rival that of the current corporations.



    So, using your reasoning, we should continue to allow the middle class to shoulder the tax burden simply because other countries are immoral? Please tell me this is not what you are saying ...
    You premise that high taxes makes a better country is bull****. You just want to steal from those that work, and give to those that don't.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  9. #39
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Then again, if you fail to understand how idiotic your "point" was on the basis of the standards I laid out, then I really can't help you understand.
    Wow there, hold your horses .. no need to get defensive .. if I find holes in arguments, I point them out ,, and often times people find arguments illogical because A. they are, B. the person hasn't really explained their argument, or C. all of the above

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Your little comparison is a fallacy, and it fails to make the point you think you're so clever in making.
    Really? And what was my point? You must have psychic powers, because if you claim to know what point I was trying to make, then I must have explained it clearly enough ... so ... what gives ? ? ?

  10. #40
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    You premise that high taxes makes a better country is bull****. You just want to steal from those that work, and give to those that don't.
    those who want others to pay more taxes so that they, themselves, can pay less or get more government goodies always try to cloak their greed in high minded nonsense about the "greater good" and fairness



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