View Poll Results: Why is the middle class the most crippled by income tax? Select all that apply

Voters
84. You may not vote on this poll
  • Allowing many people to have a shot at being uber-wealthy is dangerous

    1 1.19%
  • Making the uber-wealthy share the load would be bad for the economy

    0 0%
  • The middle class do not have as much of an influence on politics as the wealthy do

    30 35.71%
  • The idea that the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax is a myth

    54 64.29%
  • A few wealthy, a few more middle class and many lower class citizens is best

    3 3.57%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 39 of 47 FirstFirst ... 293738394041 ... LastLast
Results 381 to 390 of 465

Thread: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

  1. #381
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:03 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,758

    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    And just who is claiming that state taxes relieve you of any duty you may have to pay any other taxes that are due? That is a strawman that has no basis in fact.

    What claims about your position are dishonest? Lay it out for us Turtle. I suspect you throw that out as some sort of attempt to save face after many posts in the last week have exposed your position on taxes to be nothing more than a desire for you to get a tax cut. People are taking notice

    from lpast


    and so this is your reply.

    I laid it out quite clearly in a series of long posts in which I used YOUR OWN WORDS to indict you. YOUR OWN WORDS.

    Again, first you took the position that taxation must be based on the amount of government services one used. We even had an entire thread for that purpose. Of course, that plan would have given you a tax cut.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/econom...ing-model.html

    Turtle makes it very clear what his ultimate idea of a system of taxation would be:

    ECONOMICS
    Does Anyone Actually Think........ Deficit/Debt
    18 #175 6/9/11



    That is clear and straight forward and unambiguous. The FAIREST tax system he advocates is one in which "you pay for what you use".

    He makes this clear again in this post using much the same words:



    ECONOMICS
    The Truth About Who Can Afford To Pay More Taxes
    p. 18 #172 1/21/11


    =================================

    Again, his idea of taxation if for people to "pay for what they use".

    Yet again, in another discussion of taxation he expresses the same idea

    ECONOMICS
    Constant References to Billionaires
    23 #228 6/23/11


    ===================================

    Here he looks back fondly on the ideal he believes once existed in which people paid for what they used in government services

    ECONOMICS
    Brief History of the Bush tax Cuts
    25 #243 6/2/11


    =====================================

    And once more into the breach

    ECONOMICS
    Tax Increase On the Table
    4 #37 4/14/11


    ============================================

    Here he says that the "standard" used in taxation should be the "value recieved" which is another way of saying what government services you consume

    GENERAL POLITICAL DISCUSSION
    Flat Tax
    7 #66 7/4/11




    Then, you abandoned not only the plan itself, but you abandoned the principle behind it. Your completely trashed and flushed the idea of connecting taxation to how much consumes in government services in favor of a per capita levy on all persons based on government spending. Your impassioned plea to connect taxation to how much one consumes in government services was trashed and flushed and as gone with the wind. You did a 180 and completely embraced a principle that was opposite of your first. Of course, this new scheme also gave you a personal tax cut.

    Then you trashed and flushed the per capita idea in favor of a consumption tax in which the entire idea of how much one consumed or even a per capita levy on it was trashed and flushed altogether in favor of a tax based on consumption.



    I guess , to you, the meaning of the word ALWAYS is interchangeable with "of the moment and what I now have retreated to"?

    Of course, you would get a tax cut in that scheme also.

    Three different ideas, all very different, some 180 degrees opposite the other, all based on very very different principles.

    Or are they?

    The one "principle" (if one can call selfishness a principle) in all three is that you get a tax cut.

    Now that is the most honest presentation of your taxation positions there is and are completely supported by your own words. If you have a problem with that, state it clearly and I will speak to it.
    why filibuster this thread with such long winded distortions. You constantly have whined that those who pay NO FEDERAL income tax pay state taxes and that somehow cuts against the argument that those who vote to raise income taxes on others don't pay that tax



  2. #382
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:03 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,758

    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    No one is attacking you personally...lawyers in general are bottomfeeding bloodsuckers and every poll ever conducted on it the majority agrees...its not the attorneys that support more govt...its the blood suckers, the class action suit for anything including if your icecream melted lawyers...that bleed business and individuals for personal gain...come to florida spend one week watching the never ending ads trying to suck people into suing companies for every drug ever made, you still have them milking the mesothelioma ...so stop the whining about the legal profession, its sleezy period...CD is predicated on lies...its not a personal attack on YOU...everything isnt about YOU lol...its about lawyers sleezers in general...IMHO and im "ENTITLED" to my opinion lawyers are the main cause of the countries problems... so stop the victim thing please
    your idiotic stereotypes are just that and yes, you started your infantile jihad against attorneys as a pathetic attempt to attack me personally.



  3. #383
    Sage
    lpast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Fla
    Last Seen
    05-21-16 @ 10:12 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    13,565

    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    your idiotic stereotypes are just that and yes, you started your infantile jihad against attorneys as a pathetic attempt to attack me personally.
    No your attacking me PERSONALY LOL....I dont take offense everytime someone posts a HATE COPS thread...so stop being infantile and self centered and please dont use this as an opportunity to tell everyone all about yourself...we know turtle..we know we know lol

  4. #384
    Noblesse oblige
    Ockham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    01-27-17 @ 07:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    23,909
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Oh that is up there but its no worse than those who claim the rich stole wealth from others or anyone who opposes affirmative action is racist. all are equally silly
    The difference is, those class warfare knobs post that every day for months... ignorance on a repetitive scale gets people numb to it's stupidity until it's expected stupidity.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  5. #385
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:03 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,758

    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    No your attacking me PERSONALY LOL....I dont take offense everytime someone posts a HATE COPS thread...so stop being infantile and self centered and please dont use this as an opportunity to tell everyone all about yourself...we know turtle..we know we know lol
    so tell us Ipast-why did you start your juvenile attack on attorneys as a RESPONSE to my posts?



  6. #386
    Noblesse oblige
    Ockham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    01-27-17 @ 07:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    23,909
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    so tell us Ipast-why did you start your juvenile attack on attorneys as a RESPONSE to my posts?

    Maybe the purpose was this?

    Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?-baits_04-jpg
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  7. #387
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:33 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    90,006

    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    why filibuster this thread with such long winded distortions. You constantly have whined that those who pay NO FEDERAL income tax pay state taxes and that somehow cuts against the argument that those who vote to raise income taxes on others don't pay that tax
    Your own words are "long winded distortions"?

    Your own views given back to you on a silver platter are "long winded distortions"?

    Your own positions on tax issues are "long winded distortions"?

    Your own statements of your own principles on taxation are "long winded distortions"?

    Your own abandonment and reversals of those principles on taxation are "long winded distortions"?

    That is an amazing charge Turtle. I realize you eschew evidence and loathe its uses preferring instead pontifications and belief system statements. But when you accuse me of distorting your positions on taxation it is right and proper to present that position in your own words. I realize you may take offense at anyone employing such an underhanded tactics actually reproducing your own words and yoru owns positions but that is right and proper in debate.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  8. #388
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:33 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    90,006

    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    dp - sorry
    Last edited by haymarket; 08-30-11 at 10:04 AM.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  9. #389
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Exactly I have no problem whatsoever with him wanting a tax cut or feeling he pays to much taxs...Im sick of hearing how many millions he pays and that everyone that has to take anything from the govt is a lazy slouch parasite stealing from him...hes obviously hasnt seen the real world out there other than his neighborhood and his office. You dont get real life experience sitting in a lecture hall learning how to overbill.
    "The rich are always going to say that, you know, just give us more money and we'll go out and spend more and then it will all trickle down to the rest of you," Warren Buffett, the world's third wealthiest person, recently told ABC News' Christiane Amanpour"

    "Republicans would rather not have a debate about whether CEOs of bailed out financial firms, hedge fund managers, or energy company executives can afford paying taxes at the top tax brackets during the Clinton years. So they focus their sound bites on the revered, but mostly misunderstood, small business sector."

    "According to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, extension of high income tax cuts would do little to help the overwhelming majority of small businesses. Businessweek reported that the Congressional Research Service analysis found that "Small businesses with actual workers would pay only about 12 percent of the higher taxes." Furthermore, small business employment rose by an annual average of 2.3 percent -- or 756,000 jobs -- during the 1990's when top tax rates were at the levels they'll return to if the cuts expire. By contrast, between 2001 and 2006 -- after the Bush cuts took effect -- small business employment rose at only 1 percent annually -- or 367,000 jobs."

    "But they are simply recycling the same "cry wolf" claims they've used whenever anyone proposes to raise taxes. They did it in 1982 when Ronald Reagan decided to address the swelling deficit, and again in the 1993 battle over Clinton's budget. Their dire warnings weren't true then and they aren't true now."

    Will Higher Taxes on the Rich Kill Jobs? | Cry Wolf Project
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  10. #390
    global liberation

    ecofarm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Miami
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:02 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    66,424

    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    "The rich are always going to say that, you know, just give us more money and we'll go out and spend more and then it will all trickle down to the rest of you," Warren Buffett, the world's third wealthiest person, recently told ABC News' Christiane Amanpour"
    Not taxing someone is giving them money? Or did the 'cry wolf project' cheat with context.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 08-30-11 at 01:25 PM.

Page 39 of 47 FirstFirst ... 293738394041 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •