View Poll Results: Why is the middle class the most crippled by income tax? Select all that apply

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  • Allowing many people to have a shot at being uber-wealthy is dangerous

    1 1.19%
  • Making the uber-wealthy share the load would be bad for the economy

    0 0%
  • The middle class do not have as much of an influence on politics as the wealthy do

    30 35.71%
  • The idea that the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax is a myth

    54 64.29%
  • A few wealthy, a few more middle class and many lower class citizens is best

    3 3.57%
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Thread: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

  1. #371
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Well said lpast. I really have no problem with Turtle believing he should get a tax cut. He has a right to feel that way. What I have a huge problem with is his pretending that those feelings - and nothing more than those feelings - are enough to conduct a debate about tax policy. That is simply ridiculous.
    Exactly I have no problem whatsoever with him wanting a tax cut or feeling he pays to much taxs...Im sick of hearing how many millions he pays and that everyone that has to take anything from the govt is a lazy slouch parasite stealing from him...hes obviously hasnt seen the real world out there other than his neighborhood and his office. You dont get real life experience sitting in a lecture hall learning how to overbill.

  2. #372
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Exactly I have no problem whatsoever with him wanting a tax cut or feeling he pays to much taxs...Im sick of hearing how many millions he pays and that everyone that has to take anything from the govt is a lazy slouch parasite stealing from him...hes obviously hasnt seen the real world out there other than his neighborhood and his office. You dont get real life experience sitting in a lecture hall learning how to overbill.
    If you actually read what I have posted you might get a different perspective. Its so easy to oppose your own made up version of what someone else says



  3. #373
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    If you actually read what I have posted you might get a different perspective. Its so easy to oppose your own made up version of what someone else says
    Thats only part of what you say incessantly and redundantly...im not the only one who see's it over and over again... but its your right to post whatever you choose.

  4. #374
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Thats only part of what you say incessantly and redundantly...im not the only one who see's it over and over again... but its your right to post whatever you choose.
    We all have seen the same thing, the crying that we should take sympathy for how rough the rich have it, all without a shred of evidence of course, that we should take more from seniors and the working poor to fatten their money bags even more. 85% of the country's wealth is apparently not enough to end the pain being suffered by the rich.

    If it weren't for the parasitic working poor and seniors, why the rich might own 90 or 95% of the country's wealth, which is only fair according to those who value money more than peoples lives, or the nation's economy.
    Last edited by Catawba; 08-30-11 at 12:59 AM.
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Oh that is up there but its no worse than those who claim the rich stole wealth from others or anyone who opposes affirmative action is racist. all are equally silly
    The Left has a long, very well documented history of racism, even before they stood with fire-hose in hand to oppose the enforcement of Board v Brown; KKK ties are hard to get rid of. Modern Liberal policies destroy the family, especially the Black family. Even Planned Parenthood, the priests who maintain the sacred alter of abortion all Liberals mush pay homage to, was founded for the expressed purpose of using eugenics to harm Blacks.

    The only way to embrace Liberalism and deny racism is to admit ignorance, learn, then denounce Liberalism or embrace the truth of it's racist nature.

  6. #376
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    The Left has a long, very well documented history of racism, even before they stood with fire-hose in hand to oppose the enforcement of Board v Brown; KKK ties are hard to get rid of. Modern Liberal policies destroy the family, especially the Black family. Even Planned Parenthood, the priests who maintain the sacred alter of abortion all Liberals mush pay homage to, was founded for the expressed purpose of using eugenics to harm Blacks.

    The only way to embrace Liberalism and deny racism is to admit ignorance, learn, then denounce Liberalism or embrace the truth of it's racist nature.
    Wait!? What? Say what?
    Are you talking about how democrats in the south were the once being oppressive?


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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Wait!? What? Say what?
    Are you talking about how democrats in the south were the once being oppressive?
    ...and how they, Democrats, who composed the major majority of southern politicians at the time, actively worked against everything Dr. King fought for.

    I find it truly ironic that Blacks flock to the Democrat party today...a sort of cultural Stockholm Syndrome, where the liberal left have perfected a sophisticated form of slavery. The Left has simply traded the whip for the entitlement, and in so doing retain more control over Blacks and destroy more Black families then ever before.
    Last edited by Jerry; 08-30-11 at 02:03 AM.

  8. #378
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    wrong, the fact that you pay state taxes IN NO WAY relieves you of your duties to pay federal taxes. You seem to forget that citizenship comes with duties and paying for that citizenship is one of them. Your claims about my position are completely dishonest
    And just who is claiming that state taxes relieve you of any duty you may have to pay any other taxes that are due? That is a strawman that has no basis in fact.

    What claims about your position are dishonest? Lay it out for us Turtle. I suspect you throw that out as some sort of attempt to save face after many posts in the last week have exposed your position on taxes to be nothing more than a desire for you to get a tax cut. People are taking notice

    from lpast
    Hay if you read turtledudes posts consistently he is all over the place...one day hes for this one days hes for that....the only thing he is for is that he should pay less taxs than anyone else...umm just because he is him....FAIL...and thank the good lord the middleclass and poor outvote the handful of rich that have it all.
    and so this is your reply.

    I laid it out quite clearly in a series of long posts in which I used YOUR OWN WORDS to indict you. YOUR OWN WORDS.

    Again, first you took the position that taxation must be based on the amount of government services one used. We even had an entire thread for that purpose. Of course, that plan would have given you a tax cut.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/econom...ing-model.html

    Turtle makes it very clear what his ultimate idea of a system of taxation would be:

    ECONOMICS
    Does Anyone Actually Think........ Deficit/Debt
    18 #175 6/9/11

    My definitions of fair-which reject the From each according to their ability

    THE FAIREST

    You pay for what you use

    just like every other area of human interaction
    That is clear and straight forward and unambiguous. The FAIREST tax system he advocates is one in which "you pay for what you use".

    He makes this clear again in this post using much the same words:



    ECONOMICS
    The Truth About Who Can Afford To Pay More Taxes
    p. 18 #172 1/21/11

    I want people to pay for what they use so when they demand more it costs them more
    =================================

    Again, his idea of taxation if for people to "pay for what they use".

    Yet again, in another discussion of taxation he expresses the same idea

    ECONOMICS
    Constant References to Billionaires
    23 #228 6/23/11

    fair would be everyone paying the same tax rate or people paying for what they use
    ===================================

    Here he looks back fondly on the ideal he believes once existed in which people paid for what they used in government services

    ECONOMICS
    Brief History of the Bush tax Cuts
    25 #243 6/2/11

    your obsession is that you like the current system and think that it cannot be changed.

    and it once was different. people once paid for what they used
    =====================================

    And once more into the breach

    ECONOMICS
    Tax Increase On the Table
    4 #37 4/14/11

    I know how the tax system works and why its ruining this country.

    and yes, people should pay for what they use rather than voting themselves the wealth of others
    ============================================

    Here he says that the "standard" used in taxation should be the "value recieved" which is another way of saying what government services you consume

    GENERAL POLITICAL DISCUSSION
    Flat Tax
    7 #66 7/4/11

    Given I reject the From each according to their ability argument and note that value received should be the standard, and a flat tax prevents the many from jacking my taxes up what other argument do you have other than you want to keep more of your next dollar than I get to keep

    Then, you abandoned not only the plan itself, but you abandoned the principle behind it. Your completely trashed and flushed the idea of connecting taxation to how much consumes in government services in favor of a per capita levy on all persons based on government spending. Your impassioned plea to connect taxation to how much one consumes in government services was trashed and flushed and as gone with the wind. You did a 180 and completely embraced a principle that was opposite of your first. Of course, this new scheme also gave you a personal tax cut.

    Then you trashed and flushed the per capita idea in favor of a consumption tax in which the entire idea of how much one consumed or even a per capita levy on it was trashed and flushed altogether in favor of a tax based on consumption.

    I have always said a consumption tax is the most desirable practical tax.
    I guess , to you, the meaning of the word ALWAYS is interchangeable with "of the moment and what I now have retreated to"?

    Of course, you would get a tax cut in that scheme also.

    Three different ideas, all very different, some 180 degrees opposite the other, all based on very very different principles.

    Or are they?

    The one "principle" (if one can call selfishness a principle) in all three is that you get a tax cut.

    Now that is the most honest presentation of your taxation positions there is and are completely supported by your own words. If you have a problem with that, state it clearly and I will speak to it.
    Last edited by haymarket; 08-30-11 at 07:56 AM.
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  9. #379
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    your silly efforts to attack me because I am an attorney with idiotic and unsupported claims about all attorneys is really amusing. I have always said there are too many attorneys-especially those who support more government and more income redistribution. ie the ones that make up the core of your party. NOT MINE. Three of Our last Four candidates for President were NOT Lawyers. Every candidate you have had since Carter was other than law school flunk out Al Gore. Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton, Kerry and Obama-all attorneys.
    No one is attacking you personally...lawyers in general are bottomfeeding bloodsuckers and every poll ever conducted on it the majority agrees...its not the attorneys that support more govt...its the blood suckers, the class action suit for anything including if your icecream melted lawyers...that bleed business and individuals for personal gain...come to florida spend one week watching the never ending ads trying to suck people into suing companies for every drug ever made, you still have them milking the mesothelioma ...so stop the whining about the legal profession, its sleezy period...CD is predicated on lies...its not a personal attack on YOU...everything isnt about YOU lol...its about lawyers sleezers in general...IMHO and im "ENTITLED" to my opinion lawyers are the main cause of the countries problems... so stop the victim thing please

  10. #380
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    The Left has a long, very well documented history of racism, even before they stood with fire-hose in hand to oppose the enforcement of Board v Brown; KKK ties are hard to get rid of. Modern Liberal policies destroy the family, especially the Black family. Even Planned Parenthood, the priests who maintain the sacred alter of abortion all Liberals mush pay homage to, was founded for the expressed purpose of using eugenics to harm Blacks.

    The only way to embrace Liberalism and deny racism is to admit ignorance, learn, then denounce Liberalism or embrace the truth of it's racist nature.
    I don't believe EVERY liberal (which encompasses a rather wide spectrum of beliefs-from gay rights activists, to pro choice advocates, to the typical reactionary statist parasites we see on this board, to utopian pillow headed idealists) supports racism and more than a few welfare-socialists I have met actually oppose affirmative action which is clearly institutionalized racism. But there is no doubt that many "liberal" programs are infected by the racism of low expectations etc.



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