View Poll Results: Why is the middle class the most crippled by income tax? Select all that apply

Voters
84. You may not vote on this poll
  • Allowing many people to have a shot at being uber-wealthy is dangerous

    1 1.19%
  • Making the uber-wealthy share the load would be bad for the economy

    0 0%
  • The middle class do not have as much of an influence on politics as the wealthy do

    30 35.71%
  • The idea that the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax is a myth

    54 64.29%
  • A few wealthy, a few more middle class and many lower class citizens is best

    3 3.57%
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Thread: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

  1. #351
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    We have been through this time and time again, in thread after thread, no matter what the actual topic.

    A flat tax is the rich mans wet dream since it will give them a tax cut. And that is your only priority Turtle. Lets look at your various tax positions over the past few weeks:

    1 - You insist that taxation should be based upon how much government services one utilizes and everyone should be taxed based on what they use like a retail shopping experience at Costco. You say this over and over and over again, you say this in thread after thread after thread. You cling to this the way a drowning man in the ocean clings to a piece of driftwood and refuse to give it up claiming that this is your sacred principle and is what is right and ethical.

    2- You suddenly trash that position in favor of a 180 degree turn to the exact opposite - suddenly you favor a per capita tax where everyone pays the same regardless of what government services they consume or use. Your sacred principle went out the window, was smashed and trashed, was flushed down the porcelain receptacle in favor of the directly opposite approach. What happened to your sacred principle that you espoused for a very long time?

    3 - Then you trash and bury the per capita idea in favor of a consumption tax which has nothing at all to do with government services that were the lynchpin in ideas #1 and #2.

    And even though all three ideas are polar opposites of each other in principle, they all have one thing in common: they give Turtle a tax cut since they benefit the wealthy.

    If you see as a PRINCIPLE the idea that what is good for Turtle is the final standard - then that seems to be what passes for principle in your eyes.

    You have made it clear with your 180 pivots and reversals that you have no political principles - you have only your selfish interests at heart.
    right now the richest 1 percent make 22% of the income but pay almost 40% of the income tax

    but Haymarket is against any tax system that would allow the rich to pay less of the tax burden because that hurts his party

    a flat tax would mean that the richest 1 percent would pay about 25% of the income tax if they pay 22% of the income. that seems fair to me

    Haymarket thinks that its wrong for me to argue against a system that makes one group pay more of the taxes than almost 90% of the rest of the country.



  2. #352
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Your silly nonsense about attorneys is backfiring and only makes you look hysterical. Find where ANY conservative on this board has said they should pay NO taxes. and if you want to attack professions, we can talk about all the civil rights violations second rate police department employees have perpetrated
    No no turtledude your incessant whining and Gloating and your Shouting from the rooftops about how rich you are and how many millions you pay in taxs and how the poor are robbing you and shouldnt be allowed to vote...has made you a FOOL over and over and over again ....lol...your oblivious to how your wailing sounds

  3. #353
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    No no turtledude your incessant whining and Gloating and your Shouting from the rooftops about how rich you are and how many millions you pay in taxs and how the poor are robbing you and shouldnt be allowed to vote...has made you a FOOL over and over and over again ....lol...your oblivious to how your wailing sounds
    don't you have better things to do than clog up this thread with your butt hurt whining towards me

    people who don't have any skin in the game shouldn't be telling others how much more taxes they pay. that is why everyone who votes in federal elections ought to be paying federal income taxes



  4. #354
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    right now the richest 1 percent make 22% of the income but pay almost 40% of the income tax

    but Haymarket is against any tax system that would allow the rich to pay less of the tax burden because that hurts his party

    a flat tax would mean that the richest 1 percent would pay about 25% of the income tax if they pay 22% of the income. that seems fair to me

    Haymarket thinks that its wrong for me to argue against a system that makes one group pay more of the taxes than almost 90% of the rest of the country.
    Actually what you fail to comprehend, what you fail to understand, what you fail to acknowledge is that we have lots of different taxes in this nation paid to different levels of government. You obsess about one particular tax becuase it is progressive in nature and is designed to hit the wealthy harder. So you hate it out of pure self interest.

    We have property taxes. You have supplied this board with the details of your own property tax payments Turtle. You have told the board that you have some 25 acres and are wealthy and pay only $6,000 a year in property taxes. I, on the other hand, live on 3/4 of an acre and pay $5,000 in property tax each year. I pay a significantly much much much higher percentage of my income on property tax than you do.

    But I do not obsess about this.
    I do not whine about it continually.
    I do not make it the focus of my life.

    I simply accept that different taxes hit different people differently and there is some sort of rough balance since in the end, we all pay about the same percentage of our income in taxation when you count all taxes paid to all levels of government.

    Do not preach to anybody about what is "fair". A word like FAIR implies some sort of ethical framework is in place which you use as a standard to make a rational judgment. In your case turtle, that would be an outright lie. You have no ethical framework to help determine what is fair. You have no principles to guide you. What you have is your own self interest and only your own self interest and you are more than willing to embrace almost any idea which furthers that same self interest.

    Just look how you have proven this to the board with your own positions on taxation:

    1 - You insist that taxation should be based upon how much government services one utilizes and everyone should be taxed based on what they use like a retail shopping experience at Costco. You say this over and over and over again, you say this in thread after thread after thread. You cling to this the way a drowning man in the ocean clings to a piece of driftwood and refuse to give it up claiming that this is your sacred principle and is what is right and ethical.

    2- You suddenly trash that position in favor of a 180 degree turn to the exact opposite - suddenly you favor a per capita tax where everyone pays the same regardless of what government services they consume or use. Your sacred principle went out the window, was smashed and trashed, was flushed down the porcelain receptacle in favor of the directly opposite approach. What happened to your sacred principle that you espoused for a very long time?

    3 - Then you trash and bury the per capita idea in favor of a consumption tax which has nothing at all to do with government services that were the lynchpin in ideas #1 and #2.

    And even though all three ideas are polar opposites of each other in principle, they all have one thing in common: they give Turtle a tax cut since they benefit the wealthy.

    If you see as a PRINCIPLE the idea that what is good for Turtle is the final standard - then that seems to be what passes for principle in your eyes. That is your definition of FAIR. FAIR is what Turtle benefits from. No more and no less.

    You have made it clear with your 180 pivots and reversals that you have no political principles - you have only your selfish interests at heart.
    Last edited by haymarket; 08-27-11 at 01:45 PM.
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  5. #355
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    what you pay in state taxes is no more relevant to what you should pay in federal taxes than what you pay for your car has to do with your mortgage payment.

    the wealthy pay far too much of the income taxes because they cannot outvote those who pay less and want more and more government.

    I have always supported a consumption tax as the most practical and fairest solution

    I support any tax that prevents people you support from winning elections by promising the masses the wealth of others.

    flat tax, user tax, consumption tax-all prevent the many from being seduced by promises only the rich will pay more and more to fund the government services the many feel they are entitled to

    and I pay more in a quarter than you make in a year and you whine I should pay more



  6. #356
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    These type of expressions are ugly to read and frightening to realize what a deep hold they have on members of the radical right wing out to destroy America.
    Your sensationalism is hilarious. For some reason you take my statement that people naturally learn from their actions when pain is present and you turn that into a reason to be scared for your life. Asking people to feel the results of what they are asking for is nothing to be scared of and its nothing to create a fuss over. Its merely asking people to play a part in the pain of their actions. If you are scared of such an idea you should get help for your fear issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Is thta why so any people keep on playing sports like full contact football, rugby, hurling, etc.......
    Why do you think people play a full contact sport? Asking me stupid questions is not my worth time to answer.

  7. #357
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post



    Why do you think people play a full contact sport? Asking me stupid questions is not my worth time to answer.
    Then don't concoct a half baked hypothesis.

  8. #358
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Then don't concoct a half baked hypothesis.
    So what you are saying is you don't know why people play contact sports.

  9. #359
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you do know that Lawyers are among the biggest donors to the party you worship.

    and everyone who has been around this forum for more than you have know that I am an avid supporter of both tort reform and making plaintiffs who lose lawsuits pay the costs and fees of the prevailing defendant

    your silly post is not responsive to my earlier post btw

    That has nothing to do with you shouldnt be able to vote because of the conflict of interest....and EVERYONE on this forum with brains knows exactly why im making this statement...lol...obviously you dont.....your the one that incessantly rants that the poor shouldnt be able to vote because they get public assistance, do you realize how ridiculous you sound...everyone can cherry pick a group that has a conflict...like lawyers lol...you will figure it out keep thinking about it

  10. #360
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Trickle down economics, as our last 30 year experiment has shown it to be, is a reverse Robin Hood economy.

    And the GOP are still hawking it today. It is in fact the only plan they have.

    "In 1980 Ronald Reagan told the biggest lie ever perpetuated on the American public. He condemned Jimmy Carter for running a $40 billion deficit, and then told everyone he could cut taxes and balance the budget. Voodoo economics -- that’s what George H.W. Bush called Reagan’s economic plan. He was right, and by the mid ’80s the budget deficit had ballooned to over $200 billion.

    Of course it was the rich who walked away with virtually all of the Reagan tax cuts. During the last 25 years the Republicans have doubled down over and over again, giving more and more tax cuts to the rich. While the rich have gotten incredibly wealthy, the poor have gotten poorer. It is a reverse Robin Hood economy where we take from the poor and give to the rich. It has been the greatest transfer of wealth in the history of our country -- the 400 richest have more than the 155 million poorest."

    The Crisis is Our Unwillingness to Make Rich Pay Their Share | Common Dreams
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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