View Poll Results: Why is the middle class the most crippled by income tax? Select all that apply

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  • Allowing many people to have a shot at being uber-wealthy is dangerous

    1 1.19%
  • Making the uber-wealthy share the load would be bad for the economy

    0 0%
  • The middle class do not have as much of an influence on politics as the wealthy do

    30 35.71%
  • The idea that the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax is a myth

    54 64.29%
  • A few wealthy, a few more middle class and many lower class citizens is best

    3 3.57%
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Thread: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

  1. #271
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    I agree with you GhostlyJoe. What do you think about this:

    How about 0% tax on everyone's first $20,000 of income, 20% on the next $40,000 (for everyone), and 30% on the next $60,000 (for everyone) and a rate of 35% on anything beyond that?

    Everyone taxed in the same exact way. Total equality.
    Your plan doesn't tax everyone "the exact same way".

    Can you even see the words you posted? Giving your intelligence and reading comprehension a civil benefit of the doubt, there must be something wrong with your web browser, or mine, because your post, as it appears on my screen, just clearly summarized an unequal progressive taxation plan.

    Equality demands that if incomes of less than $20K are taxed at 0%, that incomes greater than $60K are also taxed at 0%.

    Equality demands that if incomes greater than $60K are taxed at 35%, that incomes less than $20K are also taxed at 35%.

    Otherwise you are punishing people for being successful, while rewarding people for remaining failures; which is the result and perhaps the expressed intent of Liberal fiscal policy.
    Last edited by Jerry; 08-26-11 at 04:14 PM.

  2. #272
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    I agree with you GhostlyJoe. What do you think about this:

    How about 0% tax on everyone's first $20,000 of income, 20% on the next $40,000 (for everyone), and 30% on the next $60,000 (for everyone) and a rate of 35% on anything beyond that?

    Everyone taxed in the same exact way. Total equality.
    Interesting proposal .. it would put the median household's tax burden at about $6K, or a bit over 10 percent, and combined with all other forms of taxation, would definitely hit the middle class a little harder than the current tax code, but I could live with that necessary evil if only because of the sheer size of our debt and national responsibilities. It's going to be painful no matter what.

    Personally, I would advocate for a more progressive system than your proposal, but I agree that it's fair. Over the long term, I would like to see all the rates come down to more sustainable levels.

  3. #273
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Equality demands that we tax the poor as much as the rich, and the rich as little as the poor. Anything else is discrimination, thus unconstitutional.
    There is no discrimination. Your membership in a class is determined by your actions, not by immutable qualities, and those actions in turn determine how the law treats you. For the tax code, your bracket status changes as soon as your income-level changes, and most people move up and down in brackets as they move through life. I've personally been taxed at many different rates over the course of life.

    Again, I'm not sure what you mean by equality ... perhaps you're just trolling?

  4. #274
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    There is no discrimination.
    Except that which DavidD succinctly outlined in his post #268.

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    Your membership in a class is determined by your actions, not by immutable qualities, and those actions in turn determine how the law treats you.
    Religion is more a choice then the economic class you were born in.

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    For the tax code, your bracket status changes as soon as your income-level changes....
    One's tax bracket should only change when their Citizen status changes, not their income. Otherwise you're saying some people are more equal than others, which is another reoccurring theme within Liberal circles, ie; Hate-Crime legislation et-al.

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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Except that which DavidD succinctly outlined in his post #268.
    For the man who makes $40 a month, that $40 is extraordinarily valuable to him. Without it, he will have no food, he will be unable to pay the rent and maintain a home, he may even not survive.

    As for the man who makes $100,000 a month, $40 is practically nothing to him. If he looses that same $40 that the first man has, it will no impact at all on his life.

    Income in the form of money does not necessarily carry the same value from person to person. Many people have a hard time grasping this subject, but trust me understanding this is the key to understanding a progressive tax system.

    Perhaps one day, you will understand too.
    Last edited by David D.; 08-26-11 at 06:05 PM.

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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Except that which DavidD succinctly outlined in his post #268.
    People who rob banks get thrown in jail. People who don't rob banks don't. That's not discriminatory either. I'm not calling for equality of outcome.


    Religion is more a choice then the economic class you were born in.
    Bank robbery is also a choice, but some people are born to criminals and suffer the consequences. Freedom to practice religion is codified in the Bill of Rights. Freedom from taxes is not. But I agree that circumstances of birth heavily affect one's economic prospects. Thankfully, there's a progressive system of taxation to help address that and promote equality of opportunity.

    One's tax bracket should only change when their Citizen status changes, not their income. Otherwise you're saying some people are more equal than others, which is another reoccurring theme within Liberal circles, ie; Hate-Crime legislation et-al.
    Their "Citizen status"?

    I don't support hate-crime legislation.
    Last edited by GhostlyJoe; 08-26-11 at 06:11 PM.

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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    For the man who makes $40 a month, that $40 is extraordinarily valuable to him. Without it, he will have no food, he will be unable to pay the rent and maintain a home, he may even not survive.
    Real examples are appreciated, but that is not one, so it is dismissed.

  8. #278
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    People who rob banks get thrown in jail. People who don't rob banks don't. That's not discriminatory either. I'm not calling for equality of outcome.




    Bank robbery is also a choice, but some people are born to criminals and suffer the consequences. Freedom to practice religion is codified in the Bill of Rights. Freedom from taxes is not. But I agree that circumstances of birth heavily affect one's economic prospects. Thankfully, there's a progressive system of taxation to help address that and promote equality of opportunity.



    Their "Citizen status"?

    I don't support hate-crime legislation.
    You're equating financial success with being a criminal. This is consistent with the Liberal trend for punishing success and rewarding failure.

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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Real examples are appreciated, but that is not one, so it is dismissed.
    This is your actual response? I would have thought you would have least tried to come up with a counterargument.

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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    This is your actual response? I would have thought you would have least tried to come up with a counterargument.
    I suppose I view your failure to include in the income of that hypothetical worker all the government assistance he would get, as well as compensation for whatever disabled him form making more, was laziness on your part; and I responded in kind.

    If that man can make more but refuses, he should starve.

    You're telling me that you know of a real person with a marketable trade-skill, who works 40-60 hours per week, and makes $40 per month?

    ...and you think that solution is to bill the rich, as opposed to addressing why that perfectly healthy and educated worker is being exploited in what can only be a slave-trade?

    Even my sister who has had brain surgery and babysits occasionally makes more than that.

    Hell, these last couple months I've only worked 2 days a month (literally) and I make 6 times that.
    Last edited by Jerry; 08-26-11 at 06:58 PM.

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