View Poll Results: Why is the middle class the most crippled by income tax? Select all that apply

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  • Allowing many people to have a shot at being uber-wealthy is dangerous

    1 1.19%
  • Making the uber-wealthy share the load would be bad for the economy

    0 0%
  • The middle class do not have as much of an influence on politics as the wealthy do

    30 35.71%
  • The idea that the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax is a myth

    54 64.29%
  • A few wealthy, a few more middle class and many lower class citizens is best

    3 3.57%
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Thread: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

  1. #201
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    A new contributer on the forum by the name of Swit, provided the following well thought out comments on this topic in another thread ~

    "2. Regardless of the fact that many poor families (or individuals) could most definitely make better economic decisions (i.e. saving, investing, etc...) it does NOT negate the fact that it is BENEFICIAL for business (and thus our consumer-driven economic model) for them not to. I state this because it really is a no-brainer that when more and more money is saved and squirreled away, there is less and less opportunity for new businesses to sprout up as a result of the major driving factor of our economy which is consumer spending. Now if you take umbrage with my claim that we live in a consumer-driven economy then we can debate that. But, by conservative accounts (eliminating entitlement health expenditures by the government, and purchase of imports) consumer spending accounts for approximately 50% GDP and by the standard definition of GDP (which includes the previously mentioned exclusions) it hovers somewhere around 70%. Now take into account that we now live in a global economy, and that American's need to generally demand a higher wage (with no small part being an increased cost of living as opposed to those in say China or India with respect to the value of the Dollar) by outsourcing jobs and and forcing people to compete with people in areas where basic needs cost less. This forces even more money out of our consumer-driven economy. It is in EVERYONE'S best interest (particularly business) to have the vast majority of people to have the ability to not only provide for their basic necessities but also to buy stuff that they want. By definition this requires full time employment to provide a wage that is not only living but also has extra for discretionary spending. This fact seems to be missing from the current debate. If we develop an economy where only a small portion of the population has discretionary finances then new business will have a extremely difficult time taking hold as people will have to weigh eating with buying shiny new stuff. This type of mentality helps no one, rich or poor.

    3. When all this is taken into consideration, ALL welfare and entitlement monies spent by the government inevitably end up in businesses hands be it food, health care or whatever those people spend money on. Its NOT the government robbing the rich to to give to the poor, it's the government robbing from the rich to sustain the economy which made the rich... er... well... rich. This simple math seems to be lost on most people. People on welfare are NOT saving money, they are spending it. So, those of you that are upset with our welfare system need to realize that what is really going on is that the high tax burden of the wealthy isn't really going to the poor its most likely going to the local small business owner (or even multi national corporations like say Walmart), as thats where the poor are spending their "free" money. It's merely Governments way of perpetuating the economic status quo and preventing societal instability."

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/genera...post1059754308
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  2. #202
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba
    Where in the Google, does it back up Turtledude's claim that the rich benefit less from government than the working class?

    Provide a quote with a link to back it up, if you think it is possible.
    Tell you what - can you back up your claim that they benefit more? Do the rich have to use more public streets? Do rich people call the police or fire station more than the poor? Does the top 1% use more electricity or heat than the bottom 90%.

    You can keep vomiting your strawman all you want, but it makes you look stupid. You'd come off better just putting your hands over your ears and shouting NAH NAH NAH I CAN'T HEAR YOU NAH NAH NAH I CAN'T HEAR YOU!

  3. #203
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Tell you what - can you back up your claim that they benefit more? Do the rich have to use more public streets? Do rich people call the police or fire station more than the poor? Does the top 1% use more electricity or heat than the bottom 90%.

    You can keep vomiting your strawman all you want, but it makes you look stupid. You'd come off better just putting your hands over your ears and shouting NAH NAH NAH I CAN'T HEAR YOU NAH NAH NAH I CAN'T HEAR YOU!
    I wasn't the one that made the claim.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  4. #204
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I wasn't the one that made the claim.
    many of your claims are based on that flawed assumption



  5. #205
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    many of your claims are based on that flawed assumption
    Still nothing to back up your claim that the rich benefit less from government than the working class I see.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  6. #206
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Still nothing to back up your claim that the rich benefit less from government than the working class I see.
    no one can deny that the 1 percent who pay almost 40% of the federal income taxes use far less than the class of 90% who pay the same sum of income taxes.

    whether one millionaire uses more of the government than one pauper is not the issue.

    the issue is one class that pays X amount of taxes uses far less than a class 90 times bigger that only pays X amount of the taxes.



  7. #207
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    no one can deny that the 1 percent who pay almost 40% of the federal income taxes use far less than the class of 90% who pay the same sum of income taxes.

    whether one millionaire uses more of the government than one pauper is not the issue.

    the issue is one class that pays X amount of taxes uses far less than a class 90 times bigger that only pays X amount of the taxes.

    Yes, one can certainly deny that the rich benefit less from the government than the working class as you have claimed. If you could prove it, you would have already done so somewhere in the last dozen posts of your opinions, "counselor."
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  8. #208
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Yes, one can certainly deny that the rich benefit less from the government than the working class as you have claimed. If you could prove it, you would have already done so somewhere in the last dozen posts of your opinions, "counselor."
    common sense is ignored by those who wish to engage in emotional escapist fantasies.

    some things are obviously true. those who deny that are obviously dishonest.

    so here is the question

    do you admit or deny that 90% of the population use more of the services funded by the federal income tax than the top one percent who pay as much income taxes as that bottom 90%

    its a simple question. do you have the honesty to answer either yes or no

    there are only two choices.



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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    common sense is ignored by those who wish to engage in emotional escapist fantasies.

    some things are obviously true. those who deny that are obviously dishonest.

    so here is the question

    do you admit or deny that 90% of the population use more of the services funded by the federal income tax than the top one percent who pay as much income taxes as that bottom 90%

    its a simple question. do you have the honesty to answer either yes or no

    there are only two choices.



    We can have a discussion, if you like, after you either prove your claim, or retract it. Where is your authoritative evidence of your claim that the rich benefit less from government than the working class, "counselor"?
    Last edited by Catawba; 08-25-11 at 11:14 PM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  10. #210
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    Re: Why does the middle class pay the most crippling amount of income tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    We can have a discussion, if you like, after you either prove your claim, or retract it. Where is your authoritative evidence, "counselor"?
    I say the 90% use far more.

    can you say one way or the other? We know you won't because either you will lie or you will undercut the premise for your soak the rich nonsense



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